German electric storage radiators
Comments
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If you are going to respond, please try to tell me why one heater cannot be more efficient than another.
I think most of us 'seasoned posters' - as you put it - are aware of your aim in posting.
Also I am quite sure you know the answer to your question; however in case any newbie thinks your nonsense has any validity they should turn to one Albert Einstein who famously concluded:“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.”
Therefore if any heater is supplied with electrical energy it will convert that energy to heat(measured in calories/BTu/Joules). Regardless of the type of heater, for a specific input, the output of heat will be the same. They are all 100% efficient at turning electricity into heat.
The above holds true for a radiator filled with platinum, custard, salt water(with a solution of any density!) or any substance known to man.
For example an oil filled radiator will retain heat longer than a water filled radiator, but it will take longer for the oil to heat up. Thus for consumption of, say, 1kWh of electricity the output of heat will be exactly the same.
The sillyness in Mosshead's original statement, compounded in his second post, stems from this:The salt water radiator will heat quicker, which will allow the element to go off sooner. It will also cool slower which will allow the element to be off longer.
A radiator is designed to have a surface area that will dissipate all of the heat the element can produce. Put, say, a 1kW radiator outside on a cold day and it will draw continuously 1kW as the thermostat will never operate
He seems to think that the thermostat on a radiator is operated by the temperature of the medium with which it is filled(salt water in this case) rather than the ambient temperature of the room.0 -
There is no extra energy burned, there is extra energy stored which is released in the form of HEAT which is retained thanks to the physical properties of whatever material you fill the heater with.
Seriously guys... you are beginning to worry me!0 -
There is no extra energy burned, there is extra energy stored which is released in the form of HEAT which is retained thanks to the physical properties of whatever material you fill the heater with.
Seriously guys... you are beginning to worry me!
I call TROLL - and I'm not a "seasoned poster".0 -
There is no extra energy burned, there is extra energy stored which is released in the form of HEAT which is retained thanks to the physical properties of whatever material you fill the heater with.
Seriously guys... you are beginning to worry me!
So please explain how 'extra energy' can be stored and later released (in the form of heat), without 'extra energy' being consumed (in the form of electricity) in the first place?
Or are you suggesting that Mr A. Einstein was barking up the wrong tree entirely?
But if you can demonstrate that the First Law of Thermodynamics is a complete red herring, I'll happily dash out and buy a large drum of custard powder...No free lunch, and no free laptop
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So... just heat your room with a bowl of custard then.
Good luck.
The usual, paranoid 'I think the poster's motive's are pretty clear' (or whatever it was you said) would have been in my predictive response by the way. None of you would know a wind up if it came up and tattooed 'I am a wind up' on your erse.
I reiterate... I searched Google for some info on 'efficient German storage heaters' and was directed here.
If you think I have nothing better to do with my time than irritate irritating people then you all (20 billion + posters) are sadly mistaken.
I am none the wiser.
So well done.
That E-jit(s) thing was my own by the way. It will be all over the web in six months by frustrated forum visitors like myself.
At least you can claim to be the first E-jit(s)
You have contributed nothing useful to my quandary.
Tell me why I should or shouldn't buy these heaters.
My decision has already been made but I would genuinely be interested in any measured input...0 -
The heater elements burn electrical energy which is released as heat.
If you release this heat into the air it will cool in the air dependant on the ambient temperature of the air.
If you release this energy into a medium with heat retaining properties then that medium will store the heat (energy) for longer than the cool air of the room.
If you reheat that medium, you will keep it warm and radiate heat (into the air) much more efficiently than you would if you just draw the air into the heater, heat it over the element and blow it away over an instantaneous convector heater (into the cold air of the space.)
It is ridiculous to say that every heater is as efficient as the next one... ie. 100%
Heating elements are 100% efficient in that they burn exactly the amount of energy that it says on the tin.
Heaters however, can release this energy in the real world in a more or less efficient (and useful or more cost effective) manner entirely dependent on whether they are filled with custard or platinum.
I would suggest that if you could get some platinum filled radiators, you would have some pretty damn, efficient radiators... barring the cost of the bricks!0 -
No you would have a heater that heats up quick and cools down quick although it would make far more sense to make the platinum heater out of tin or lead, which broadly have the same thermal properties as platinum at a fraction of the cost! Of course you would be well advised not to touch or put any soft furnishings near said heater!
Going to efficiency, unless some heaters don't release all the heat energy put into them, they are all 100% efficient in releasing energy i.e. what goes in comes out - it would be a strange world if they didn't do this though as they would have to get hotter and hotter but not release any more heat - a bit of a paradox.0 -
If you put 2kwh of electric into an element you get 2kw of heat out, that's it. 100% efficient.
If you let out that 2kw of heat straight into the air it will raise the temperature of that air by several degrees over a short period of time.
If you store that heat in salt water or custard the heat will be released over a longer period of time (dependant on the specific heat capacity of each), but the air temperature will not rise as high.
It's the same 2kw, it just takes longer to release it.
ALL electric element heaters are 100% efficient, all release 100% of the energy put in.
It's up to you if you want to warm a room quickly by using a fan heater of 2kw or warm it slowly (to a lower temperature) with a storage medium holding 2kw.
If you don't like the answers you get and have convinced yourself you know best, don't bother asking the "E-Jit(s)" on here for advice.
All I know is you're gonna be pretty famous and super rich very soon if you've managed to prove the German patents clerk wrong :rotfl:A pair of 14kw Ecodans & 39 radiators in a big old farm house in the frozen north :cool:0 -
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TiredGeek has it. A water bottle in bed is more comfortable than a kettle full of boiling water over your feet.0
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