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  • FIRST POST
    • tikki999
    • By tikki999 13th Jan 18, 1:27 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 27Thanks
    tikki999
    On less pay than colleagues doing exact same job
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:27 PM
    On less pay than colleagues doing exact same job 13th Jan 18 at 1:27 PM
    When offered a job last year, I was told that I would start at the bottom end of the pay scale as I did not have enough experience and they would be employing people with more experience who could help me out at the start.

    Very quickly, it was apparent that nobody had previous experience of this position (call centre) but we all had professional experience in the area of work the call centre deals in. In fact, my qualifications are higher than those of several of my colleagues doing the EXACT same job. Over time, I realise, through casual conversation and information that was offered to me by several colleagues, that several colleagues are being paid at the higher end of the scale.

    I quickly began to feel that I had been duped, in terms of the rationale for starting me at the lowest end of the salary scale and, discovering that my colleagues are earning more than me for doing the same job, I am angry and deeply resentful of the company. This information does not impact how I feel about my colleagues - we are a great team, I respect them all and they deserve their salary (as would I!)

    My probationary period is soon to end and at the last review I told my manager about my feelings around this and what steps I could take to address this. I have not spoken to colleagues, and will not do so. My manager told me that I either wait until pay rises are negotiated in a few months time OR I would have to take it 'to the top' now.

    I've just been digging around for information, and as I understand it, it is illegal to pay employees different salaries for doing the same job. Any thoughts?

    In the meantime, I am looking for alternative work, there's just not a lot around in my field.
Page 2
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 14th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
    • 280 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Sorry of this sounds rather simplistic...but could it just be a case the employer felt the other colleagues deserved a higher rate...or maybe they negotiated a better rate at interview.

    Got to ask why you took the job if you wasn't happy with the rate they offered.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 11:50 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    Am assuming that you agreed this salary when first joined your company and signed a contract to this effect? If you weren't happy with the salary during the pay negotiations then why did you accept it?

    You were happy with the starting salary hence why you signed the employment contract but now you're not happy because you discovered a peer is on an enhanced rate, maybe you should have asked your current employers to reveal all of its staff's salaries at final interview stage so you could make a balanced judgement. Or maybe you should just suck it up or leave to get another job where you think you will get paid more.
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 14th Jan 18, 1:03 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 211 Thanks
    Stylehutz
    This is why staff should not be talking about salary at work.
    Originally posted by xapprenticex
    Why shouldnt they. Anyone with any integrity wouldn't expect to earn more than anyone else for doing the same job. Im always open with my colleagues about my salary and if i find someone is earning more than me for doing the same role, I want to know Why?
    • takman
    • By takman 14th Jan 18, 1:47 PM
    • 3,006 Posts
    • 2,588 Thanks
    takman
    Why shouldnt they. Anyone with any integrity wouldn't expect to earn more than anyone else for doing the same job. Im always open with my colleagues about my salary and if i find someone is earning more than me for doing the same role, I want to know Why?
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    I disagree. If it's a really simple job then maybe you could say everyone should be paid the same. But the more skilled the job is then your much more likely to get people who are better at it than others. So the people who are better at the job and provide more value to the company should be paid more.
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 14th Jan 18, 1:59 PM
    • 12,648 Posts
    • 26,377 Thanks
    robpw2
    There's no law saying people doing the same job have to be paid the same.
    Originally posted by Mulder00
    well thats not exactly true ..

    EU law could apply if there is any sexual discrimination either direct or indirect

    that being that they should get equal pay for equal work



    But obviously if there is no sexual discrimination then you are right


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
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    • tikki999
    • By tikki999 14th Jan 18, 2:20 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    tikki999
    No, I wasn't happy with the rate. I was naive AND I was desperate. Not a great combination.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 3:32 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    Why shouldnt they. Anyone with any integrity wouldn't expect to earn more than anyone else for doing the same job. Im always open with my colleagues about my salary and if i find someone is earning more than me for doing the same role, I want to know Why?
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    That's a very naive way of considering matters, if it was an hourly rate attached to a job packing items into boxes for example then yes you are correct.

    If its a salaried role then there may be a pay band associated with the role depending on the incumbents experience or qualifications. It may even boil down to how hard the contract negotiations were when the job was offered or even how desperate the company were to recruit a person into the business.
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 14th Jan 18, 3:57 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 211 Thanks
    Stylehutz
    I disagree. If it's a really simple job then maybe you could say everyone should be paid the same. But the more skilled the job is then your much more likely to get people who are better at it than others. So the people who are better at the job and provide more value to the company should be paid more.
    Originally posted by takman
    So who decides who is better at the job? Should be same rate of pay for all, unless its a specialist managerial role for instance.

    That's a very naive way of considering matters, if it was an hourly rate attached to a job packing items into boxes for example then yes you are correct.

    If its a salaried role then there may be a pay band associated with the role depending on the incumbents experience or qualifications. It may even boil down to how hard the contract negotiations were when the job was offered or even how desperate the company were to recruit a person into the business.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    That seems unfair that the only criteria for getting a higher salary is that the candidate asked for it at interview. If they can offer a candidate more money then all similar existed staff should get the same.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 14th Jan 18, 4:25 PM
    • 10,180 Posts
    • 8,272 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    That seems unfair that the only criteria for getting a higher salary is that the candidate asked for it at interview. If they can offer a candidate more money then all similar existed staff should get the same.
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    It doesn't work that way.

    I'm an employer I want to employ both A and B. A is OK, well qualified and accepted the salary I offered him. B similarly well qualified, but shrewder, more able to demonstrate his worth, didn't accept what I offered A. I want B so I offer him more.
    • takman
    • By takman 14th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
    • 3,006 Posts
    • 2,588 Thanks
    takman
    So who decides who is better at the job? Should be same rate of pay for all, unless its a specialist managerial role for instance.
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    If a job requires a certain amount of skill then there are usually people who are better at the job than others and often quantifiable ways to measure how good someone is at their job, depending on what job it is.

    The most obvious example of this is a job in sales. If you have 2 salespeople working for you and one consistently makes 5 sales a week and the other makes 10 a week. Then the person who makes 10 sales a week and generates twice as much money for the company should be paid more (usually in the form of a bonus).

    Another example is in a manufacturing environment where the production process is very manual and requires specific skills. Most people may produce 10 widgets a day, but the some people may be able to produce 12 a day. So they are generating 20% more products in the same time which generates more money for the company. So why shouldn't they be paid more, if they are not then what's stopping them slowing down and not putting too much effort in if they only need to make 10 a day to keep with everyone else.

    Even in a role such as handling complaints in a call center. If an after call survey shows that the average percentage of complaints resolved in 1 call is 65% and one person is consistently get 80% then why shouldn't they be rewarded with extra pay if they are putting in more effort?.

    I could go on and give many many more examples of how you can measure how well an employee is performing in a quantifiable way. Which is something that should definitely be done then you can see which employees are performing above expectations and putting in the extra effort. If a workplace doesn't reward the employees who do extra then they will stop doing it and loose motivation and end up performing the same as everyone else.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 14th Jan 18, 4:55 PM
    • 4,990 Posts
    • 6,248 Thanks
    theoretica
    ... if i find someone is earning more than me for doing the same role, I want to know Why?
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    Exactly. And in many of the examples given in this thread there is no need for secrecy, the employer could say exactly why someone was being paid more, and what other employees could do to be paid as much.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 14th Jan 18, 5:32 PM
    • 264 Posts
    • 211 Thanks
    Stylehutz
    If a job requires a certain amount of skill then there are usually people who are better at the job than others and often quantifiable ways to measure how good someone is at their job, depending on what job it is.

    The most obvious example of this is a job in sales. If you have 2 salespeople working for you and one consistently makes 5 sales a week and the other makes 10 a week. Then the person who makes 10 sales a week and generates twice as much money for the company should be paid more (usually in the form of a bonus).

    Another example is in a manufacturing environment where the production process is very manual and requires specific skills. Most people may produce 10 widgets a day, but the some people may be able to produce 12 a day. So they are generating 20% more products in the same time which generates more money for the company. So why shouldn't they be paid more, if they are not then what's stopping them slowing down and not putting too much effort in if they only need to make 10 a day to keep with everyone else.

    Even in a role such as handling complaints in a call center. If an after call survey shows that the average percentage of complaints resolved in 1 call is 65% and one person is consistently get 80% then why shouldn't they be rewarded with extra pay if they are putting in more effort?.

    I could go on and give many many more examples of how you can measure how well an employee is performing in a quantifiable way. Which is something that should definitely be done then you can see which employees are performing above expectations and putting in the extra effort. If a workplace doesn't reward the employees who do extra then they will stop doing it and loose motivation and end up performing the same as everyone else.
    Originally posted by takman
    Maybe a bonus scheme. would be fairer. Can't imagine anyone would want to compile a record of who makes more widgets then anyone else. Personally I would pull up the person who was producing less widgets and get them to pull their finger out or they will be shown the door.

    It doesn't work that way.

    I'm an employer I want to employ both A and B. A is OK, well qualified and accepted the salary I offered him. B similarly well qualified, but shrewder, more able to demonstrate his worth, didn't accept what I offered A. I want B so I offer him more.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    So, you would tell the rest of your workforce in the same roles what you would be paying Candidate B who has yet to prove themselves.,or maybe you would be sworn to secrecy?
    • crackerberry
    • By crackerberry 14th Jan 18, 6:12 PM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,168 Thanks
    crackerberry
    Sorry of this sounds rather simplistic...but could it just be a case the employer felt the other colleagues deserved a higher rate...or maybe they negotiated a better rate at interview.

    Got to ask why you took the job if you wasn't happy with the rate they offered.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    Maybe the OP was unemployed and desperate for a job, and didn't have the luxury of being able to turn it down? It happens.
    • Naf
    • By Naf 14th Jan 18, 6:45 PM
    • 2,987 Posts
    • 2,218 Thanks
    Naf
    Maybe the OP was unemployed and desperate for a job, and didn't have the luxury of being able to turn it down? It happens.
    Originally posted by crackerberry
    In which case the company doesn't need to make a higher offer to try and secure the hire. If they thought that the did need to, and the candidate warranted it, then they would have.

    As a rule businesses pay their employees as little as they think they can get away with. With the exception of specific favouritism situations, there is always a business reason why one person is offered something higher than another. It could be a huge variety of things, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread.

    Once you get into negotiated salary territory, you being paid less than someone else either means that you bring less to the business in one way or another, or that your negotiation skills simply aren't as good (which in itself is bringing less to the company to be fair).
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 6:48 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    Maybe the OP was unemployed and desperate for a job, and didn't have the luxury of being able to turn it down? It happens.
    Originally posted by crackerberry
    Agreed especially if the company knows this - you are not in a position to bargain if its a take it or leave it scenario.

    Bottom line is though if you accept the offer at face value you can't then go back bleating that it's not enough further on down the line.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 6:52 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    That seems unfair that the only criteria for getting a higher salary is that the candidate asked for it at interview. If they can offer a candidate more money then all similar existed staff should get the same.
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    Have you never heard of contract negotiations? In some cases the recruiting company will make things easier and say that there isn't a band for the role but one figure which is non-negotiable, at least then you are aware of this before you go for interviews knowing there won't be any flex on the starting salary.
    • Naf
    • By Naf 14th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 2,987 Posts
    • 2,218 Thanks
    Naf
    Bottom line is though if you accept the offer at face value you can't then go back bleating that it's not enough further on down the line.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    That's not true at all. You can always try to renegotiate; but you need some leverage to be in with any chance. Generally this means another job offer with a higher wage or otherwise preferable conditions, and the confidence that the current company really wants to keep you.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 6:57 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    That's not true at all. You can always try to renegotiate; but you need some leverage to be in with any chance. Generally this means another job offer with a higher wage or otherwise preferable conditions, and the confidence that the current company really wants to keep you.
    Originally posted by Naf
    If a new member of staff came to see me complaining that they had found out one of their peers was on more money then them and they wanted parity it would be the shortest conversation in the history of humanity.

    I would ask them however how they came by this information if staff are openly discussing their pay rates with each other.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Jan 18, 7:12 PM
    • 4,375 Posts
    • 7,303 Thanks
    sangie595
    If a new member of staff came to see me complaining that they had found out one of their peers was on more money then them and they wanted parity it would be the shortest conversation in the history of humanity.

    I would ask them however how they came by this information if staff are openly discussing their pay rates with each other.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    Maybe that's part of the reason your boss was unhappy with your interactions with colleagues? It isn't illegal to discuss pay amongst colleagues, and if your response to an employee asking a reasonable and fair question results in you throwing them out or some such method of having a short conversation, then you aren't really much of a manager. If there is a reason for the difference in pay, then you would be able to explain it reasonably. If there isn't, you still should be able to manage the situation somewhat better than suggested here!
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 7:24 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    inglorius
    Maybe that's part of the reason your boss was unhappy with your interactions with colleagues? It isn't illegal to discuss pay amongst colleagues, and if your response to an employee asking a reasonable and fair question results in you throwing them out or some such method of having a short conversation, then you aren't really much of a manager. If there is a reason for the difference in pay, then you would be able to explain it reasonably. If there isn't, you still should be able to manage the situation somewhat better than suggested here!
    Originally posted by sangie595
    You can't resist bringing off topic matters to other discussions can you. I remember one of your quotes about you alleging I had an alter ego on here, if avoiding your continued behaviour every time I post something requires getting another account then this may be the most useful thing you've ever suggested.
    Last edited by inglorius; 14-01-2018 at 7:58 PM.
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