MoneySaving Poll: Should the UK stay in the EU?

A note from Vote Leave:

The EU-funded CBI has today launched its latest campaign for the UK to stay in the EU, come what may. In a report called Choosing Our Future, it makes arguments about the importance of access to the single market and the benefit of one set of rules for the UK's exporters. Its Director-General John Cridland concludes that 'most of our companies want the UK to be in a reformed EU'.

However, we know that the CBI misrepresented its members on the euro. Its surveys excluded businesses with fewer than 10 employees thus not taking account of what 95% of all British businesses thought about the euro in 1999. Furthermore, leaked minutes from its Economic Affairs Committee in 1998 revealed the CBI had ruled out 'a completely random survey of businesses, which would be the ultimate gauge of firms' attitudes to UK membership of EMU'. Despite this, the CBI still campaigned vigorously to join the euro, claiming that 75% of its members were in favour of the single currency.

They are doing the same thing now. The CBI claims that 80% of businesses back EU membership, but we know this isn't true and that business is divided. A FSB survey released last month found that 41% of its members would vote to leave the EU. Similarly, in a recent Business for Britain poll of SMEs, over 40% of respondents stated that the EU hinders their business, compared to 20% who said it helped.

For over a decade, polls from ICM and others have shown that over two-thirds of businesses think that a) Britain should control its own trade deals, not the EU Commission, and b) Britain does not need to accept the supremacy of EU law in order to trade with the EU. The fundamental logic of the single market is not supported by most UK businesses.

The CBI was wrong on the euro and it is wrong now. Some big businesses and establishment groups like the CBI will try to claim that if we leave the EU, the UK economy will suffer. But remember, the chair of the BSE campaign, Lord Rose has said that 'nothing is going to happen' if we leave.

We want to end the supremacy of EU law and regain the ability to make our own trade deals. There is only one way to choose our future, and that is to Vote Leave in the EU referendum.

Here are my thoughts on the above post:


1.How do you stand up to global multinationals and their excesses as a single nation? It is just too easy for them to bypass you.

- It is the multinationals that are pushing the EU
- Look at the lobbying that is explained in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO4Ayo4mYZg



2.How, in a global economy, do you tackle tax evasion/avoidance? The EU has a far better chance of blocking loopholes.

- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10421590/European-law-created-this-tax-racket-that-robs-us-of-billions.html


3.The environment is the biggest single issue of our time, but going alone on any environmental issue will kill a local economy (you cannot tax aeroplane travel alone for example). The world needs collective responsibility, starting with Europe and the EU.

- I agree that a number of issues need to be agreed internationally. The laws should be national though. British law should not be subservient to Brussels law. Governmental co-operation should be voluntary.


4.Free trade and freedom of movement are the central reason why war becomes less likely. The single biggest reason to be in the EU is to stop war and conflict.

- NATO reduces the likelihood in the Western world not the EU (Look at the Ukraine and how hostile and self serving nation states become over the migrant crisis


5.Putin is a silent partner to nationalists of the left and right in Europe. He would love to see Europe fall apart and recreate a new kind of iron curtain. The momentous events of 1989 were the most positive in recent European history. Why do we want to go back to a Europe of walls?

- Yes the EU is trying to de exactly that and create a USSEU. Again, international co-operation is important throughout Europe but should be voluntary


6.International companies see Europe as one place now. They really don't want to see the UK as separate. It is a huge disincentive for them to do business here or see the UK as a base for a European Headquarters. You don't want 25 or more complex business laws to get round. You want one.

- Since the WTO Uruguay Round Agreement most standardisation is agreed nationally where possible. I accept that the single market does have some advantages though but there are also some disadvantages. On balance, the single market is not of sufficient benefit to be worth signing away our sovereignty for


7.A richer and stronger Southern and Eastern Europe (net benefactors of EU funding) means a bigger trading area and a richer Northern Europe.

- Greece, Italy and Spain are all in financial trouble and are hardly richer and stronger. If these countries are benefactors, guess who is paying for their net benefit.


8.Cyber crime, large scale drugs crime, trafficking and most of the big problems of our time are international. How on earth do you tackle these things as a single sovereign country?

- You co-operate internationally and each sovereign state applies it's own laws. This is supported by extradition treaties. Furthermore, (apparently) the vast majority of ATM crime, particularly around London is a result of Romanian Criminal Gangs which is difficult to deal with under EU law.


9.The UK is now the 6/7th biggest economy in the world. By the year 2025 it will be about 12th at best. We need a big economy to take on Asia and the Americas. Why are America rich? Mainly because they have a huge single market. We need the same.

-Many Pro-EU people claim that the UK is only the 4th-7th (take your pick) economy because of being in the EU. There is more to being a successful economy than being big; See these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2j4oCDBbts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrLxSgLNfLQ


10."Switzerland and Norway stay out and are OK" is an argument always given. Yes, but although they are very rich they have much smaller economies. They also have to live under much EU law, without having a say in it. We are one of the three biggest European states.

- Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiUkyAb2L7o
- Although Switzerland had to adopt EU regulations when it trades with the EU (Just as Japan does), it doesn't have to apply these regulations to it's domestic market. If the UK operated on the same basis, over 90% of UK companies would be free of EU red tape

11."We should do more trade outside EU".... we increasingly are, but as always is the way we will always do more trading with our partners. And also large companies are increasingly centralised and are structured by geographical region. Continents now deal with continents.

- That's not true; companies do business with companies. The EU contains only 6% of the world's population and we do 45% of our overseas trade with them. It also is estimated to cost the UK economy £185Bn a year. The other 94% of the world's population, we do 55% of our overseas trade with and it costs the economy nothing. Furthermore, 90% of global growth is predicted to occur outside of the EU


12."too much bureaucracy".....standardisation is complex and fiddly and without question all large bodies have inefficiency and red tape. The red tape of doing business abroad by not being in Europe would be ten times worse. It is better to be in the EU, influencing than outside

- This link talks about red tape: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbusinessforbritain.org%2Feu-excessive-business-regulation-2.pdf&h=uAQEb9lbV
- This link talks about how much influence the UK has in the EU: https://gallery.mailchimp.com/1026e6b00f73284a7e46eb046/files/20151009_UK_influence.pdf


13."We are culturally different".........yes, but we are also culturally the same. I haver far more in common with a liberal/social democrat pro European from Poland than I do with a UKIP voting next door neighbour. The digital world and social networks are surefire proof that your community is everywhere.

- This is a pretty subjective argument. Personally I prefer each country in Europe to have it's own unique identity and culture, it's why I love Europe and love to travel to different countries. The EU is creating a supranational suprastate where all EU nationals will be the same. They are also for example planning to create new districts that traverse national boundaries.


14."There is a democratic deficit"..... globalisation, for good or bad, is inevitable. Devolution of power, where possible, should be encouraged but you cannot tackle the biggest issues of our time locally (defence, environment, economy, tax evasion)

- I don't agree at all. International co-operation is good, handing over the governance of our country to a 3rd party isn't


15.Immigration. Immigration and multiculturalism is one of the reasons why the UK is great. [NB. We are all immigrants if you go back far enough]. It takes huge courage to move country. Those who do are naturally pioneering and hard working. They are not dolites. You should meet some of the people I meet on Wizzair flights from Budapest to London. They desperately want to work with English people, but the English just will not do these jobs. The Eastern Europeans don't squeeze wages, employers do.

- Immigration is a good thing, in fact essential in some areas of society. However, it should be controlled. All the time we are in the EU, we simply cannot control net immigration.

What isn't mentioned in these 15 points is the true extent of what the EU are planning. Please watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv5O_Gq30ow

The danger is not in what we see today but what the EU will become, how undemocratic it is and how they simply brush aside the wishes of the people. I cannot strongly enough recommend that people check out the Lisbon Treaty and understand what it means for your country. Also consider the 5 presidents report that plans full political, economic, fiscal and monetary union.

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Over 50% of our goods exports got to the EU. Just around 6% of all EU exports go to the UK.

Now who has more incentive to agree to any trade deal?

It's about 45% and falling. The answer though is us because we have a deficit. That means any tariffs would penalise them more than us.

BTW, apparently the CBI receives about £160k a year funding from the EU