A little help.....

SteelBlonde · 5 December 2017 at 4:01PM

Hi all

Firstly, I have read most of the newbies sticky on this topic but still feel I need a bit of advice. Be gentle!

Whilst dropping and collecting my son from a bowling party on a small retail park I have been clobbered for two (!) parking charge notices via ANPR......... ie one for dropping off and another when collecting 2 hours later. This was at a car park I hadn't used for a while and the system had changed..... it is now operated by Smart Parking Ltd.

Whilst dropping off I left my mum (who is a blue badge holder) and daughter in the car and dropped/sorted son..... I was in and out of the car park in (unfortunately) just over 10 mins.
When collecting, I stayed with my car and daughter and my mum did the honours but took a while longer...... 20 mins as per the cameras.
Not realising the change or noticing the signs, I didn't obviously buy any tickets as thought someone was with the car and could move if needed!

So..... with the 28 day period coming up and me not being happy with the prospect of paying £180 before xmas..... I was wondering if I have a viable choice???

There is signage, although the 'Terms' board I feel has small lettering (I've taken pics). The bowling venue say they can't quash it. I've thought about appealing as my mum took a long time as she is less abled but don't obviously want to admit that I was driving! Even thought about offering to pay one charge in total at the lower rate of £54 as a compromise???!

Thoughts????

muleskinner · 5 December 2017 at 4:13PM

What are the terms displayed?

Umkomaas · 5 December 2017 at 4:34PM

Who did what/Blue Badge/birthday party/bowling alley are irrelevant - sorry, not trying to be harsh, but often the ‘trimmings’ can get in the way of dealing with this surgically.

I suspect that you were required to enter your car’s registration number for each entry, either at a P&D ticket machine or in (one or any of) the outlets serviced by the car park. This would then link with the ANPR data to check for overstays (or those who did not comply with the requirements).

Smart have been late in sending out their NtKs of late, so could you give us the following:

1. Date of parking event.
2. Date shown on the two NtKs you’ve received.
3. Dates of receipt of the two NtKs.

SteelBlonde · 6 December 2017 at 12:35AM

Many thanks.

The description of events was to provide further information in case there was another way of avoiding the fine!

Date of contravention was 29/10/17
Date shown on NtK letters was 10/11/17
Date I received/opened letters was 16/11/17 (I had been away for a few days)

I can post a pic of the 'Terms' board if that helps???

Edna_Basher · 6 December 2017 at 12:51AM

Smart don't attempt to hold vehicles' keepers liable for their parking charges. Even if they did, these particular PCNs were delivered beyond the relevant period specified under Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of POFA (i.e. the 14 days 30/10/17 - 12/11/17).

These will be easy wins so long as you don't spill the beans about who was driving. However, you'll need to get your skates on to get your initial "appeals" into Smart - you can do this via their website.

Check out the Newbies Sticky thread on this Forum and use the blue template.

Umkomaas · 6 December 2017 at 6:46AM

Follow Edna Basher’s advice re getting in your initial appeals. It’s a simple copy and paste exercise, no additions/edits please. Follow precisely the method required by Smart for the submission of the appeals - if there’s an electronic option, use it.

Very important - you must deal with each charge separately. Do not appeal both in the same document. Two separate ones, right the way through the appeals process.

SteelBlonde · 6 December 2017 at 12:41PM

Thanks guys.

Just appealed both (separately!) using the blue template, cut and pasted for the Smart online system.

Reading the PoFA paragraphs, I do think they may have fallen outside of the 14 day written notice period - if you consider the letters probably arrived at a weekend and add the 2 working day period after posting?!

Cheers

nosferatu1001 · 6 December 2017 at 1:42PM

Its all about when the docs are received. Having an isue date that cannot possibly meet the 14 days is helpful, but otherwise a witness statememt stating when the docs are receivedd is sufficient evidence.

Ralph-y · 6 December 2017 at 1:45PM

While all this is going on ....... have you complained to the bowling alley ?

and let them know that you will make sure ALL the parents of the youngsters visiting that day will be informed of this hounding of customers ....

Ralph:cool:

Edna_Basher · 6 December 2017 at 2:23PM

SteelBlonde wrote: »

Reading the PoFA paragraphs, I do think they may have fallen outside of the 14 day written notice period.

Indeed they did. According to POFA, the notices are deemed to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which they were posted (unless the contrary is proved).

Even if we assume that Smart posted the notices on Friday 10th November, they would be deemed to have been delivered on Tuesday 14th November (i.e. two days after the end of the relevant period).

Guys_Dad · 6 December 2017 at 6:33PM

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Its all about when the docs are received. Having an isue date that cannot possibly meet the 14 days is helpful, but otherwise a witness statememt stating when the docs are receivedd is sufficient evidence.

WRONG.

POFA deems delivery 2 working days after posting, no mention of when actually received. Check it out!

OP is 100% right, along with others, in saying that the NtK is out of time.

A simple one point appeal on that point is all that should be needed and clogging it up with a generic appeal is not helpful.

When you have a "Golden ticket" such as out of time, forget the speculative generic appeal. Just make sure you spell out the dates and why it fails to the PPC.

Coupon-Mad, who wrote the sticky, agrees with this advice too. :beer:

A little help.....

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