Solar ... In the news
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Hi
Is hpc for our keeping our nuclear stock up to date for our trident system.
regards
geoff0 -
Couple of PV items in the news:
REC achieves +20% efficiency for mass production of multicrystalline solar cells
For reference a 'normal' sized 285Wp panel is around 17% efficient.
UK: Moixa launches affordable home solar+storage kit
Not exactly cheap, but interesting.
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »Further to postings from long ago, here's an update on UK trials of domestic storage, and an item on the rollout of a large (1.68MW) flow battery.
Scottish Power and UK ‘smart battery’ maker deploy 50 systems in non-government funded trial
Mart.
Further to this post, the components are starting to arrive
First redT energy storage machines arrive at Gigha
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
What do the inermittency costs arise from? If it is from contracting backup diesel generation than whilst not being a cost problem, it could be an environmental one - firing up the diesel during a settled temperature inversion in November is potentially rather damaging both locally as well as CO2 wise.
Further to your question, this article goes into a bit more depth on the intermittency costs and benefits of PV generation when combined with battery storage.
Solar intermittency costs removed by 2030 with the help of battery storage argues new report
The issue is quite important as intermittency costs (for all intermittent generation, but especially PV due to its low capacity factor (about 11%)) are important so that we can more fairly compare costs.
As I've previously said, on another forum some nuclear fans have suggested the additional costs for PV are £50/MWh. The government have previously suggested £10-£20/MWh (perhaps £10/MWh for wind).
Therefore PV costs not only have to be lower than other technologies, but by a margin that covers these costs.
However, if the actual cost is much lower, around £6.80/MWh, or potentially negative, then the pressure is off.
Currently, for comparison, last year's PV contracts were for £83/MWh, whilst Hinkley C is at £102. PV contracts issued in Germany this year were close to £60, and costs seem to still be falling ....... where PV is well supported!
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
... or cost just under £5k, so around £200/kWh (£5k/24) on prices which are probably around 18months+ too expensive in real terms ...
So, £200/kWh on a Power-wall type domestic setup would be around £1500 add something akin to an SMA battery charge control inverter+power monitoring and we have a target basic price before installation of around £2.5k, so £3k fully installed ?. A 7kWh Power-wall battery system should be ~$3000, so around £2300 in real money ... again, prices are around 18months old so should be due a volume related reduction pretty soon ...
So, based on a Leaf battery price we have a 7kWh domestic install cost of ~£3k against a direct Power-wall comparison of £3800 ... not too bad a comparison, but remember that the mark-up for automotive spares is huge, the battery prices are both based on 18month-old economics (which are moving rapidly) and that anyone currently charging considerably more isn't really interested in ecology or long-term business prospects ....
HTH
Z
Hi Z. I was reading up on the new Zoe battery, and the shock news that its weight is only marginally more than the old one despite having nearly twice the capacity. Then I noticed the guesses at prices (such as in the comments section on this article) and thought of you ...... well your post.
It does seem that car batts are getting quite cheap, with figures here of €8,000 for 46kWh/41kWh useable. Just need that to translate over to plug-n-play domestic units, as that's very much in line with my hoped for price of 5kWh/4kWh useable for £1,000, somewhere in the future .... plans.
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
What do the inermittency costs arise from? If it is from contracting backup diesel generation than whilst not being a cost problem, it could be an environmental one - firing up the diesel during a settled temperature inversion in November is potentially rather damaging both locally as well as CO2 wise.
Hiya. Further to your post again, I posted this article on the green news thread as it's not PV specific, but refers to general back up needs.
However it does address the 'dirty' side of backup (coal/diesel) as you mentioned:
Energy storage vital to keep UK lights on, say MPsRedrawing these regulations could benefit cleaner generation such as wind farms and solar power, as well as newer technologies such as large-scale batteries and systems to manage energy, called demand-side response.
John Sauven, executive director of Greenpeace UK, backed the call for reform: “This report from a cross-party group of MPs is an urgent wake-up call for Theresa May’s government. It’s embarrassing that Britain, one of the world’s leading economies, has to hand out taxpayer-funded subsidies to clunking old coal plants and highly polluting diesel generators to keep the lights on. The right mix of renewable energy, battery storage and efficiency measures offers a much better alternative.”
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Grr greenpeace. Black and white thinking is always so ineffective. Wind plus solar plus diesel backup may be the cleanest solution even if the diesel bit is very dirty as it may just be a stop gap to battery and demand side management.Martyn1981 wrote: »Hiya. Further to your post again, I posted this article on the green news thread as it's not PV specific, but refers to general back up needs.
However it does address the 'dirty' side of backup (coal/diesel) as you mentioned:
Energy storage vital to keep UK lights on, say MPs
Mart.I think....0 -
Solar not to blame for UK's renewable subsidies overspendIt is well documented that solar has fallen out of favor of the British government, and one clear reason that had been presented for this was the GBP 2 billion overspend on renewable subsidies under the Levy Control Framework (LCF). However, a National Audit Office (NAO) report shows that solar only accounts for 6% of the overspend, which brings into questions the harsh treatment of the solar industry within the country.However, despite the minor role that solar played in the overspend, the industry still suffered the harshest consequences as a result. The government has ripped the subsidy schemes away from solar technology, resulting in a popular technology stagnating in the U.K.
“The unexpected growth in solar power was repeatedly fingered as a key reason for the overspend on renewables,” commented Solar Trade Association CEO Paul Barwell. “In fact, NAO analysis shows solar accounts for only 6% of the overspend – but solar has borne the brunt of corrective measures. That’s a great shame when the technology has become so popular and is now so affordable. We hope the new Department will take stock of the low cost impact of solar and act to restore confidence to the sector.”
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Do you not get tired of posting propaganda from the solar industry?
If the Government hadn't fixed the FIT so high initially, there might have been more money in the pot.
For the benefit of new readers the subsidy(FIT) was for small systems(sub 4kWp) was 41.3p/kWh for everything the panels generated, this is inflation linked for 25 years. In addition house owners received additional payments for 'export' for 50% of the generated electricity regardless of how much they exported. So these early adopters are now getting around 50p/kWh for everything they generate, without the need to export anything.
To add insult to injury the Government allowed Rent-a-Roof firms to cash-in on this bonanza and install scores of thousands of systems.
The argument of the more blinkered enthusiasts on this forum is that their pioneering efforts in UK was instrumental in driving down worldwide prices of solar panels. China no doubt increased their output by a fraction of 1% to cater for the increased demand from UK!!
Also for the 'benefit of new readers' there can be no criticism of those who took advantage of a stupidly generous scheme. However perhaps there should be a more balanced view portrayed on this forum, rather than posting constant of bleating from the solar industry.0 -
Hi All, including 'new readers' ..Do you not get tired of posting propaganda from the solar industry?
If the Government hadn't fixed the FIT so high initially, there might have been more money in the pot.
For the benefit of new readers the subsidy(FIT) was for small systems(sub 4kWp) was 41.3p/kWh for everything the panels generated, this is inflation linked for 25 years. In addition house owners received additional payments for 'export' for 50% of the generated electricity regardless of how much they exported. So these early adopters are now getting around 50p/kWh for everything they generate, without the need to export anything.
To add insult to injury the Government allowed Rent-a-Roof firms to cash-in on this bonanza and install scores of thousands of systems.
The argument of the more blinkered enthusiasts on this forum is that their pioneering efforts in UK was instrumental in driving down worldwide prices of solar panels. China no doubt increased their output by a fraction of 1% to cater for the increased demand from UK!!
Also for the 'benefit of new readers' there can be no criticism of those who took advantage of a stupidly generous scheme. However perhaps there should be a more balanced view portrayed on this forum, rather than posting constant of bleating from the solar industry.
... and to bring some balance to the above for the 'benefit of new readers', the FiT was initially set high in order to encourage take-up of the new technology and, as Cardew knows, needed to be so because installations at the time that the scheme was being created (2009) a ~4kWp system typically cost £20k-£25k+ and had an anticipated performance of around 850kWh/kWp, thus returning around £1400/year, so somewhere in the region of 6% to 7%, this being in line with long-term investment returns at the time ....
It is also relevant and to the 'benefit of new readers' to realise that the total (UK) installed capacity prior to work on FiT was ~22MWp (2008) and is now around 12GWp, growing at the following rate (Figures at December year end) ...
2008 :22
2009 :27 *Typical price for 4kWp system ~£20k/£25k
2010 :96 *FiT scheme launched
2011 :997 *High tariff ends - Typical 4kWp price early 2012 ~£10k
2012 :1766
2013 :2884
2014 :5476
2015 :9581
2016 :11037 (to August) *Typical 4kWp price ~£4.5/£5k
( Source : https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/solar-photovoltaics-deployment )
It is estimated that when taking account of all UK systems (Incl those outside the various schemes) the total grid-tied capacity is now above 12GWp..
.... as can be deduced, for the 'benefit of new readers', the initially high rate of support applies to approximately 9% (1000/12000) of installations, therefore is irrelevant for the 91% of capacity which attracts far lower levels of support. or none all ...
It may also be to the 'benefit of new readers' to mention that as of the end of 2015 the UK accounted for approximately 4% of global PV capacity, a level which is falling at a steady rate as PV installation rapidly accelerates in developing countries, something which would not (and could not) have happened so quickly if there had not been a concerted effort to kick-start competitive industrial growth by many of the 'advanced' economies .... after-all, solar in the UK after just 6 years is set to attract less subsidy (per unit energy) than "too cheap to meter" nuclear is set to achieve after 60 years of UK generation ...
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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