Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

SarahLucyD · 18 November 2009 at 2:32PM

Mcfi5dhc - I am sorry that I have made you so angry. I didn't intend to. I have read the email and I'm not confused about FITs (Feed In Tariffs). They are currenly being paid, for example - Scottish Southern pay the highest - if you contact them they will confirm that it is 28p, Good Energy pay 15p etc, in fact there is a list (or was a list) of these FITs on the DECC website. The man our Directors met at Whitehall, advised us that the new FIT is actually a Generation Tariff, and that is what he referred to it as, and which is why we refer to a Generation Tariff. You will note in the email you received that they are still seeking comments as regards previous installations, because any new installations will be under the new Generation Tariff scheme. As regards the consultation that closed on October 15th - our Directors were actively involved in that consultation.

You say that we are not doing anything for the consumer and that we are in it for the money. Of course we are in it to make money - we have never pretended otherwise. But we are in it for the long term as we know that it will not generate quick profits. We are not posing as a charity. At the same time we are not charging people anything either. We are not asking for any money. We tell everyone we speak to that we are paid for the electricity that these panels generate. We insure the panels and maintain them. Further, as you are aware the panels are very robust and have undergone rigorous testing, accordingly we don't expect many problems with them.

Our company is creating jobs in a very difficult economic climate, and we hope to create even more jobs once we start fitting in earnest in the New Year. What we are doing is also helping people to go greener and making it affordable as well. We are not in the process of scamming anyone and as I said I am very sorry if I made you angry. It was not my intention. There was obviously a disagreement as regards the FITS but I was referring to the FITS that are presently being offered by the power companies. I was genuinely baffled as to why you seemed to be so 'anti' us when we have done nothing wrong.

Cardew · 18 November 2009 at 2:44PM

SarahLucyD wrote: »

Mcfi5dhc - the present system of ROCs and FITS will be abolished to make way for the new Generation Tariffs, that is fact. However, if your PV was fitted under the OLD system of ROCs FITS etc, it is our understanding after speaking to various people in Whitehall that the old system will still apply. We will be fitting under the new system, which will be guaranteed for all systems fitted between April 2010 and April 2011. I should be grateful if you would explain why you would avoid us like the plague. What have we actually done wrong? What is it that we are proposing to do that you consider wrong? Have you actually visited our website and read about us? I am rather baffled. As you do not know what the Generation Tariffs are proposed to be, how can you calculate whether or not it will generate us an income? Also, you will be basing your calculations on the old ROCs and FITS system and what you paid for your PV, which will have been retail prices. We are not paying retail prices for our PV, obviously.

Sarah Dyson - A Shade Greener Ltd 0845 519 1598 [EMAIL="sarah@ashadegreener.co.uk"]sarah@ashadegreener.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Sarah,

Cardew -
How can you label us as a scam

Firstly I have not stated your scheme is a scam!!! I merely ask a question.

You are out of your depth in this discussion I am afraid.

As stated forcibly above, there are no FITs in place.

I suspect that what you call the "New Generation Tariff" is in fact the system of FITs that will be introduced in April if the proposals are accepted.

If I am correct in my assumption, we have of course read all detail of those propsals.

Mcfi5dhc · 18 November 2009 at 2:51PM

A microgeneration tariff is set by the company, and provided they stick to legal guidelines, they can reduce it or remove it at any time. They don't have to offer one, its purely business.
The FIT is a legally binding government backed scheme where you will get a guaranteed rate for many years (25 or so, yet to be confirmed). It will not go down during this time, but may increase. All electric companies will have to abide by this.

Cardew · 18 November 2009 at 3:17PM

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

I would avoid you because you don't appear to do much for the consumer - they get cheaper electric, but you are in it for the money. If you want to rent roof space, there are thousands of factories around the country where you could rent roof space. I can forsee a great deal of agro with having someone elses panels on the roof (not that I can fit many more). What happens when little Timmy throws a half a brick at the roof? Does your insurance cover that, or do I have to buy more insurance?

It would of course be very easy to have huge arrays of solar panels on factory roofs. Or even mounted on the ground like the huge 'solar farms' built and proposed in deserts in the USA and Africa.

I suspect that the reason why the company are going for individual houses is that domestic properties with low outputs(<2.5kW?) will get the 36.5p FIT for systems installed in the next few months, whereas large commercial systems will not.

Thus I also suspect that the individual house holder will apply for the grants and FITs and there will be a third party agreement that all the FIT and exported electricity revenue will go to 'ashadegreener'.

So in fact the householder will get the value of whatever electricity he can use during daylight hours - say 1,000kWh to 1,500kWh pa(£100 to £150)

Presumably the company will have cleared the legality of such a scheme. However to use subsidies intended for domestic residences for the benefit of a company can surely not be in the spirit of the rules and I wonder how long before such a loophole is closed.

If my conjecture is correct, it is not a scam as the householder will in effect be renting his roof for the £100 -£150, however it will depend what the 'small print' of the agreement states.

I wonder what the Tax position will be?

I also wonder why they are running this scheme in Yorkshire when the output in Southern counties like Devon and Cornwall will be considerably higher.

SarahLucyD · 18 November 2009 at 3:38PM

Cardew and Mcfi - yes I am obviously out of my depth. I am no technical expert as I said above. I simply started responding to this thread because I wanted to clarify that this is not a scam. I am also female and blonde.

What you refer to as a FIT I have been referring to as a Generation Tariff, because that is what Andrej Miller called it when our Directors met him in Whitehall. What I have been calling a Feed In Tariff you call a Microgeneration tariff. Admittedly, my terminology is not in accordance with DECC, but saying that, the consultation paper refers to Generation and Export tariffs. Of course, however, you are both much more knowledgeable in these matters than I am. And you have proved that. You are absolutely right. What I should have said - using your terminology, which is the correct terminology, is that the Microgeneration tariffs and the ROCs are to be phased out and replaced by the FITS in April 2010.

Cardew - In the process of consultation we explained fully what we were proposing to do and were told that this was being positively encouraged. They want to guarantee income for small scale renewable energy generators and therefore encourage investment in renewable energy schemes. There is no loop hole to close.

Mcfi - your comments would have been included because they invited them, but it closed on October 15. Everyone with any interest in renewables could have participated.

PS: We are fitting in the South Yorkshire area - and other areas of close proximity - because we are based there - simple logistics

PPS: Our systems are 3.3 kw, which I am told is larger than the average domestic system of 1.5kw

Sarah

Cardew · 18 November 2009 at 4:46PM

SarahLucyD wrote: »

Cardew - In the process of consultation we explained fully what we were proposing to do and were told that this was being positively encouraged. They want to guarantee income for small scale renewable energy generators and therefore encourage investment in renewable energy schemes. There is no loop hole to close.

Sarah

Agreed the Government proposals were to provide additional financial incentives by way of subsidy to householders for small scale generation.

However you are a company and effectively generating on a large scale.

It appears you want to install 3,000 solar systems, If we assume that each will generate 2,000kWh pa, that is a total of 6,000MW

It is clearly IMO a loophole for the Taxpayer to give a commercial company(effectively) 3,000 grants of £2,500 and then collect all of the grants @36.5p/kWh for 6,000 MegaWatts each year - plus the exported energy.

If your scheme was within the spirit of the regulations, why will they not agree for you to have 3,000 "small scale renewable energy generators" all situated in one site and have the same subsidies?

The economies of scale would be huge.

What sort of subsidies would a commercial company get to construct and supply 6,000MW.

SarahLucyD · 18 November 2009 at 5:12PM

Cardew - hold on, we aren't getting the grants. You are now starting to misquote us, that simply isn't fair. Also, we are looking to fit 2000 systems, not 3000. As you must be aware, the £2500 grant is being phased out along with the ROCs and the Microgeneration Tariffs and is being replaced entirely by the FITS (Generation and Export Tariffs). There are no grants available for us. And once again I must re-iterate that we were told by Andrej Miller that what we intend to do is entirely in keeping with what the Government is trying to encourage. The Government realises that it is lagging behind most other European countries as regards renewable energy:

"The Renewables Obligation is... focused on larger projects. We also want to encourage smaller projects, generating electricity closer to where it's used: solar panels on people's houses, community wind projects and farm based anaerobic digestion. This needs a simpler system, with more predictable returns. We are therefore also consulting on Feed-in Tariffs to guarantee an income for small scale renewable electricity generators..."
The Rt Hon Lord Hunt of Kings Heath OBE
Minister of State for the Department of Energy and Climate Change.
Extract from white paper: Consultation on Renewable Electricity

It does not specify that it is merely trying to encourage homeowners to generate electctricity from renewable sources.

We are making it easy for people to go greener and save money in the process by having free electricity whilst also creating jobs, which we couldn't possibly do if we didn't also make money from it. In my opinion it is a great shame that we are being criticised for it. We can't win can we?

Sarah

SimonJB · 18 November 2009 at 5:27PM

SarahLucyD wrote: »

SimonJB - not by our company, we didn't exist years ago. Also, please explain your understanding of 'These Circumstances'? The circumstances under which we will be fitting the panels didn't exist years ago, the Generation Tariffs to which I refer don't come into being until April 2010. Perhaps you can give a few more specific details - cite some references? Names? Is it fair for you to make such accusations about our company without any evidence to back them up? I am being entirely straight, transparent and unlike you am not hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. I am inviting people to come and inspect our company and our practices and nobody has yet taken me up on my offer, instead preferring to continue to post anonymous messages that still insinuate this is some form of scam.

Ring me on 0845 519 1598. Email me [EMAIL="sarah@ashadegreener.co.uk"]sarah@ashadegreener.co.uk[/EMAIL] and I will answer any questions you may have - you are welcome to record any conversation you have with me and you are welcome to visit our offices without giving us any notice and we will let you inspect our documentation - how much more transparent can we be?

Sorry you're misunderstanding my comment. I used to live in a village where someone had a solar panel fitted at no cost to themselves. I am unsure of the scheme and have a feeling some sort of advertisement for the company was involved as the house was in a very prominent position.

Just pointing out that if something seems to good to be true it normally is, but not always.

furndire · 18 November 2009 at 5:28PM

If its genuine we have a very large south facing roof, so will give this a go and see what happens.

SarahLucyD · 18 November 2009 at 5:56PM

Furndire & Used to be....

Thanks so much for your comments. It is good to get some positive comments out of all this. We at A Shade Greener really thought we were doing a good thing, this thread has been a blow to us all but particularly to me as some of the comments have been quite personally scathing - something I am not used to and I'm not very thick skinned!

I wouldn't be involved with any scamming company. I am a decent and honest person and it has been quite hard to read some of this thread.

SimonJB - thanks for your private message, I have responded to it.

Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

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