Cyclist collision at mini round about

boliston · 18 October 2016 at 7:28PM

emmasaunders wrote: »

not for cyclists its at sunset

Have you got a link to legislation that says there is a requirement to "light up" half and hour before "lighting up time"?

robotrobo · 18 October 2016 at 7:34PM

emmasaunders wrote: »

No im obsessed he didnt have lights in the dark

While out cycling this afternoon in the dismal weather, every other car had no lights on at all & some were black in colour.

emmasaunders_2 · 18 October 2016 at 7:35PM

The Road Traffic Act 1991, s.42; The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, s.

is. As soon as the sun drops behind the horizon bicycle lights should be switched on even if there may be plenty of light left to see by on a clear evening. Failure to have the correct lights or reflectors can result in being issued a Fixed Penalty Notice where the maximum is £30[6] or you can be subject to a maximum fine of £1000 in the courts.

Richard53 · 18 October 2016 at 7:38PM

I'm having difficulty imagining this. Was the cyclist on the mini-roundabout approaching from your right and you didn't see him, or was he approaching from your rear and trying to overtake, and you turned across his path? Either way, it looks a bit like a 50/50 to me. He should have been riding with more care, and you should have been looking a bit harder.

If it was dusk, then he should have had a front light, regardless of the laws around lighting-up time. If you're wearing black and with only a rear light in poor lighting conditions, then expect something bad to happen to you, especially if you go charging through junctions in traffic. (I saw two road cyclists on the bypass here tonight exactly the same.) Since DRLs became more common on cars, I seem to see more cars with lights on in poor or fading light, as if people are putting lights on earlier than they used to 5-10 years ago. So, naturally, we are starting to look for actual lights at junctions, not the vehicles themselves. I'm not saying that is right, but it is worth bearing in mind for less visible road users.

Unless it is a bright sunny day, I generally have a blinking light front and rear, and steady lights at night, and after dusk/dark I usually have a bit of hi-viz on as well. Simple self-preservation. And like all two-wheel riders, I assume everyone is out to kill me and ride accordingly. Sounds like your guy was a bit careless, which puts you both a bit in the wrong. Until we know more about the exact circumstances, it's hard to say.

His lack of a helmet is irrelevant to your argument. It is not a legal requirement and is still (surprisingly) a matter of choice, thank goodness.

fred246 · 18 October 2016 at 7:39PM

Were you wearing a helmet?

emmasaunders_2 · 18 October 2016 at 7:50PM

Hi:

correct the cyclist on the mini-roundabout approaching from your right and you didn't see him

But I would add to that that when I approached the round about he was not the first vehicle, he must have overtook the first vehicle to my right on their right if that makes sense, making it impossible for me to see through the vehicle to my right. As I made progress across the roundabout and looked directly in-front of me to avoid the possibility of people pulling out (which is kind of normal on mini-round abouts these days), he hit my wing on the right

Kim_kim · 18 October 2016 at 8:02PM

emmasaunders wrote: »

Hi:

correct the cyclist on the mini-roundabout approaching from your right and you didn't see him

But I would add to that that when I approached the round about he was not the first vehicle, he must have overtook the first vehicle to my right on their right if that makes sense, making it impossible for me to see through the vehicle to my right. As I made progress across the roundabout and looked directly in-front of me to avoid the possibility of people pulling out (which is kind of normal on mini-round abouts these days), he hit my wing on the right

I think it's unfortunate & it could happen to anyone of us.
But sadly I think you will be found at fault.
Some cyclists do take stupid chances in dark clothing with no
Lights :-(

theEnd · 18 October 2016 at 8:02PM

It sounds unlucky, but can't see how it won't be deemed your fault.

If you were being prosecuted, having no lights would form part of your defence. In this case your insurer could argue, but I can't imagine they'd bother.

There's no requirement to wear a helmet, so that's irrelevant. That said, there was a case recently (I think it was a death) where the judge indicated there was some fault on the cyclist for not wearing a helmet.

lister · 18 October 2016 at 8:06PM

I can tell you precisely why you probably didn't see him. The same reasons that most 'looked but failed to see' accidents occur, which you pretty much suggest in not quite so many words.

These are to do with effective observation. Generally people combine, in varying measure, making decisions too quickly, and failing to double check their decision making.

How often, for example, do you see a car approach a give way junction fast, throw a quick glance right and pull out left, causing either approaching traffic to brake, or then having to brake heavily for something they should have seen to their left before emerging. It doesn't take much for this sort of behaviour to degenerate into a more serious incident.

Let's have a look at some of the clues:

the mini roundabout width is incredibly small and only perhaps three pedals needed to clear it

The smaller the roundabout, the quicker danger will reach you, so the more careful you have to be with your observations to stay safe. My alarm bells are ringing.

I understand traffic to the right has right of way but when a car to my right has stopped to give way to me it necessitates that I should have entered the round about

No it really doesn't necessitate anything of the sort. It means that following an appropriate observation you might decide to proceed onto the roundabout if you are sure there are no other dangers and you are sure of the other driver's intentions.

However, what usually happens when someone lets another person out is that the beneficiary feels the need to rush and get on with it (which you are kind of hinting at in how you have written it). Which results in mistakes being made in observation. It is why learner drivers are taught never to flash or wave another road user to do something.

so proceeded to enter the round about. I then hear a thud and a cyclist has collided with my rhs near the mini round about

This says very strongly to me that once you have made the decision to move forward you have stopped looking right - if you hadn't you would have seen him at least even if you couldn't avoid the collision. Check, and double check before committing over the give way lines, then check again even as you are entering the roundabout/junction. Too often people stop looking too early.

Learner drivers are often taught at give way lines to Look, Assess, Decide and Act. How long do you think it takes to go through these steps? Trust me as someone who does this stuff day in and day out, most drivers approach too fast and don't take enough time making decisions. Fast approaches and quick observations feel like good driving until the day they let you down...

Strider590 · 18 October 2016 at 8:10PM

Richard53 wrote: »

His lack of a helmet is irrelevant to your argument. It is not a legal requirement and is still (surprisingly) a matter of choice, thank goodness.

Of course it is, but the OP is trying appeal to us on an emotional/social level, kind of like "he wasn't wearing a helmet, therefore he's a bad person and deserves no sympathy".
In much the same way that some years ago one man tried to explain away killing a biker (by pushing him into oncoming traffic) by accusing him of "queue jumping" and then later changing his statement to something like "I was trying to stop him getting hurt".

The lack of lights is relevant, but if this was a car not a bicycle, this would be a 50/50 at best.

Cyclist collision at mini round about

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