Tennants in Common, inherited house.

G_M · 9 March 2017 at 6:04PM

Morgage_Confused wrote: »

Posted by accident

Click 'edit' and then 'delete'.

it appears the property was jointly owned by grandad and nan, both of whom died (the latter during the registration process)

From what LR says, I would have thought Probate would herefore be required as there was no surviving owner to whom ownership passed.

But if the property IS now registered in the 3 names, it's academic now.

The options now are as previously outlined.

Morgage_Confused · 9 March 2017 at 6:22PM

B: Proprietorship Register
This register specifies the class of title and
identifies the owner. It contains any entries that
affect the right of disposal.
Title absolute
1 (18.08.2016) PROPRIETOR: sibling a, sibling b, sibling c of 100 the address, postcode.
2 (18.08.2016) The value stated as at 18 August 2016 was £500,000.
3 (18.08.2016) RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the
registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital
money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the
court.

getmore4less · 9 March 2017 at 6:53PM

What was the house worth and the assumption of ownership at GD death 16 years ago?

Need to check what against the spouse inherits intestate in 2001 against estate value.

Morgage_Confused · 9 March 2017 at 8:26PM

I believe the estimate was about 150k and I really have no idea of the ownership status.

Morgage_Confused · 9 March 2017 at 8:40PM

Can I ask if GD used up any of his nil rate band bearing in mind he was intestate 16 years ago? So in other words does my nan have 650k available or is it less now?

thanks

booksurr · 10 March 2017 at 3:36AM

Morgage_Confused wrote: »

Can I ask if GD used up any of his nil rate band bearing in mind he was intestate 16 years ago? So in other words does my nan have 650k available or is it less now?

thanks

a very valid question that does need checking, but presumably one that the solicitors will be dealing with since you say

Morgage_Confused wrote: »

. Also may I add they are sorting out the granddads intestacy situation 16years after death..

the potential issue is if GD's estate was more than the intestacy threshold applicable 16 years ago. (I think it may have been 125k at that time, but you'd need to confirm that).

You say the house was worth 150k then and so if his estate was above the threshold then your parent (and your aunt(s) and uncle(s) if there are any) will have been entitled to a share of the amount over the threshold as the rules then were it went to any surviving children of the deceased once the surviving spouse had taken the "statutory" legacy of the amount up the threshold (125k?). In which case yes part of his nil rate band will have been used up. Remember it is used up as a %, not as a cash sum, so now with the IHT threshold being 325k, if GD had used up for example 10% of his threshold the position now on GM's death would be GM's 325k + remainder of GD's (325 x 90%) = £617,500 not the full 650k

xylophone · 10 March 2017 at 12:28PM

http://death-duties.co.uk/content/intestacy

Grandpa died intestate sixteen years ago - if the value of his estate (including the house) was under £250,000, it should all have passed to Grandma?

Letters of Administration should have been obtained at that time and the property registered in Grandma's sole name.

Some fifteen(?) years after Grandpa's death, Grandma saw a solicitor about making her own will and in fact made one?

The solicitor set about conveying house to Grandma's ownership/first registration but this was still in progress when she died.

I suppose the legal argument would be that under the rules of intestacy that applied at the time of her husband's death, the house was hers?

The solicitor has taken the view that this was the case since ownership of the property passed according to her will?

However if the property did belong to her and passed under her will then probate was required?

If none of Grandpa's NRB was used, then 100% was available for transfer to grandma.

http://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/bereavement-and-tax/what-nil-rate-band

[Deleted User] · 10 March 2017 at 12:50PM

Is there any reason why resident sibling has to stay in the house, learning difficulties, addictions, no jobc ever held etc and how old are they ?

G_M · 10 March 2017 at 1:04PM

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that there may well be outstanding issues from 16 years ago as suggested above as a result of the estate not being managed properly at the time

* property may not have been rightfully 100% grandma's
* Inheritance Tax may have been due

If this all gets opened to scrutiny (eg if the courts and/or HMRC and/or Probate Office get involved) it could stir up a can of very expensive worms.

All the more reason for the siblings to all start acting as grown-ups and sit down to resolve things between themselves.

With the property now registered in the 3 names, there would be noneed to stir any of these matters up provided they all act together.

Land_Registry · 11 March 2017 at 12:06PM

Morgage_Confused wrote: »

OK as far as I know. Grandad sole owner. Dies intestate 16years ago. House passes to nan(they were married). Nan dies, will leaves house to 3 siblings. The siblings are now "Tenants in common". I have the land registry details. Three names are on the deeds.
1 year before death nan makes will at solicitors who are also registering the property and sorting out the deeds. Also may I add they are sorting out the grandads intestacy situation 16years after death. This process of first registration and deeds took about 15 months. Nan dies before land registry completion.

I have the deeds and can look up anything if it helps.

This can happen as a sole owner is married and dies with house passing to widow. She does nothing as there is no trigger to register unless she wants to be registered as the legal owner. Often people do as managing the deceased's estate includes dealing with the legal ownership of the property but if everything passes to Nan, as his widow, sometimes that is not considered.

As no will letters of administration are applied for (probate when there is a will)

Roll on 16 years and application for first registration so when sorting out intestate situation I assume they applied for letters of administration thus enabling Nan to transfer the legal ownership to herself and register it. Logical as she's sorting her own will and including property albeit not registered as the legal owner.

Sadly she passes away before first registration is completed. Normally we would then need probate/letters of administration for her as this would show a chain of representation from Grandad to Nan to Executor/Administrator. The E/A can then register the beneficiaries in the way described.

The suggestion is that probate/letters of Administration for Nan were not obtained. From purely a registration perspective whilst unusual there may have been some additional evidence e.g. Will, solicitor's confirmation etc supplied to enable the registration to take place in the way now shown. Especially as she died whilst the registration process was ongoing.

We are not linked to inheritance tax checks so issues around that and any liability paid/unpaid is not something we would be able to comment on.

From a legal ownership perspective all 3 of you are now legal owners so any change to that now would require all 3 of you to transfer the ownership either on sale/gift

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Tennants in Common, inherited house.

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free