Forced to use an energy supplier who will bring about an increase in my energy bill

mairiT · 8 July 2012 at 2:00AM

I am at present a very satisfied customer of B. Gas and I do not have high energy bills. The housing association has now installed a new combined heat and power system which will come under Scottish Hydro. Firstly, they have never given us the rates of the domestic energy (everything outwith heating and water), if there are standing charges and if there is an admin fee. They also intend to install a key meter which is apparently remote controlled thus allowing to be a dry or a key meter. I use the word apparently because I still do not have it confirmed in writing .

I checked my energy consumption which includes my heating and hot water and in comparison with the cheapest account available with S.Hydro, my British/Scottish Gas rate is £45 cheaper and that is before Scottish Hydro add the VAT and standing charge. My Scottish Gas account does not have a standing charge and my total price of consumption includes VAT. Scottish Hydro prices exclude VAT and standing charges.
Considering this is supposed to be a system that will reduce energy debt, I am finding that if I am forced to move to this system my financial output could increase by approx £120 per year.
I have voiced my complaints to the housing association and told them to communicate with Scottish Hydro with regards to informing tenants as to the true costs. They have only quoted the cost per unit with regards to the new heating system and nothing else.
If I were to continue with my British Gas account I would probably still have to pay a standing charge and VAT to Scottish Hydro for a meter I will never use .........can they do this to me. :A

PS I am in no way shape or form in debt to my energy supplier. I have just been refunded £130 over paid.

Terrylw1 · 8 July 2012 at 2:10AM

They can't force you to change, you have a legally binding contract with Bgas.

The only way it can take place is for you to contact Hydro to initiate a switch. That's how the industry works dispute what your HA may say.

Is your meter to be changed in this process? Again, the above applies but I'm wondering if its a type Bgas won't accept customers on hence pushing you to agree to a switch as Bgas won't want you? If so, I'm thinking you will be getting another MPAN to run alongside yours which would be unregistered until prior to the meter change. However, only your current supplier can do that meter change...Hydro can't.

mairiT · 8 July 2012 at 4:00AM

Hi Terry,

Thanks for your reply. In answer to your questions, I have been told that I can keep Scottish Gas for the rest of my domestic use and their meter will stay in place but they are installing a separate meter (S.Hydro) for the combined hot water and heating. Being totally in the dark (scuse the pun) I do not know if I could have everything moved over to SH because they have not given any information. Anyway, until Scottish Hydro are going to be more expensive than my present supplier I do not want to have their meter forced on me, be it an independent meter for the heating/hot water or as my complete supplier. It took me a few years to come out of energy debt and I have remained in credit for the past 6 years and I do not intend to be forced into paying for a) standing charges for a meter that will not serve any purpose as it will not be used, b) forced into having to change to a supplier who is far more costly. The heating system is in place it only lacks a connection to the water tank and the dratted meter. So far I have blocked access and so far I have had no written information of any description and the Housing Association has been told that until I do get all the relevant information, they will have to break the door down. What also worries me is that nobody else has been able to make an informed decision and been railroaded into this supplier. No other utilities company can have this hot water and heating system as it is unique.

penrhyn · 8 July 2012 at 9:36AM

Could you explain what this combined heat and power system actually is?

jalexa · 8 July 2012 at 9:48AM

mairiT wrote: »

The housing association has now installed a new combined heat and power system which will come under Scottish Hydro.

What type of hot water and space heating did the property have before? It will be a monumental fail if the "new" system isn't more economical saving you money (for the same heat) than the system it is replacing. Note my words "for the same heat" very carefully.

BTW it is not a gimme that the new system will deliver anything other than contrived eco-kudos for the HA.

chanz4 · 8 July 2012 at 10:04AM

I get what the op is saying, some HA have piped electric / gas for heating, and then charge their tenants separate hence the second supply, I bet the HA are putting in l/lord sub meters.

Terrylw1 · 8 July 2012 at 10:06PM

I don't buy what you've been told at all.

Metering is purchased by asset owning companies and managed at site by another. These agents are contracted by the supplier. As suppliers change due to customer switches, they tend to keep the same asset owner and contract their own management company for maintenance. They can of course buy the assets.

In terms of buying meters, the asset owner just needs to procure it from a manufacturer who will sell to anyone.

The only controlling factors are your site, whether you are domestic or business and the Market Domain Data (MDD) which governs what types of meter settings are allowed in regions.

The MDD part is well beyond the knowledge of engineers, sparky's, plumbers, customers, landlords, builders, HA's, etc...and largely for industry parties themselves who rely on specialists to advise them.

I agree with Chanz, but I think the billing may differ. Its 1 meter linked to heating/water for all the properties but that the HA could sub meter to bill the tenant to their consumption or more likely (per another thread a couple of weeks ago) they will take the whole bill and divide it by the number of tenants. The latter could see you paying for heavier users. HA's & landlords doing this method IMO are dodgy.

The problem is, this is going to be classed as a new connection and since the HA is going to be responsible for it, they can approach any supplier they want. The supplier won't have a relationship with you or any other tenant.

So, the issue is whether this meter is truly unique. It won't be, what they are doing is nothing new. I suspect the HA are are trying to hide the true facts from the tenants so you blindly accept the charges. If the meter is not unique and other suppliers can take it, the HA could go with any supplier. I suspect this is the case.

Also, they have to resell at the rate its sold to them at per Ofgem. Have you checked the contract rates are actually real though...just incase they are adding some charges on? In the other thread, they were trying to add ridiculous charges under the "administrations costs" excuse.

Richie-from-the-Boro · 8 July 2012 at 10:54PM

- are you with 'cube' and live in Wyndford on Maryhill ?
- what is your current tariff for kWh ?
- what's the proposed CHP tariff per kWh ?

mairiT · 23 July 2012 at 5:09PM

My present supplier

TOTAL KWH: 3072

TOTAL COST £386.23 (VAT INC AND DISCOUNTS)

The above is for everything not just heating and hot water. This winter my bill increased by £86 and this was principally for heating.

The annual standing charge for the new independent heating and hot water system is £142.35 and the average annual usage cost £227 bringing it to a total of £369.35 (Remember heating and hot water only). (Average 4800kWh)

Even if I were only to use this system in the winter months, the standing charges alone outstrip my £86 spent on heating this winter.

I do not have the economy 7 system which is in use on most of the estate. I had it removed/disconnected as the storage heating system was costly and gave very poor return in heat.

I am looking at a very very bleak future because I cannot afford the standing charge alone I do not see it as 39p per day I see it as an annual cost and one that my pension will not support.

£86 V £142.35

If pressed I will have use money I normally spend on heating to pay for the S.Charges and go without heating.

Anyway, what the hell I am a lone voice so I probably will be silenced

PS thanks for all the help hugs to all :T

mairiT · 23 July 2012 at 5:28PM

are you with 'cube' and live in Wyndford on Maryhill ? Yes

Forced to use an energy supplier who will bring about an increase in my energy bill

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