Small Business QuickBooks Expense Categories Advice

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 7,323 Forumite
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edited 6 October 2017 at 11:55PM in Small biz MoneySaving
I am helping my Ex with setting up Quickbooks for his accounts. Useful experience for me as I have just started an AAT course. I do have bookeeping experience from yonks ago but didn't have to categorise expenses like this in such detail

He has employed an accountant but well, the accountant seems to know less than we do and definitely doesn't understand the business my ex works in. Can do Self Assessments. Inspite of inviting us to use 'his' company's Quickbooks package for a monthly fee which we didn't take up - didn't seem to know how to use it very well. Unfortunately he's stuck with him for the next 3 months (to do the 16-17 tax assessment). I think we came out of a training session with him more confused rather than less.

I am having big problems with knowing how to categorise expenses. The accountant said fuel goes into Travel but stuff online says thats for things like taxis, air travel etc. My ex is a security guard (with dog) so there is a lot of travel from site to site. Initially we were going to put Fuel into a main category of Vehicle expenses but the accountant definitely said no to that one.

Dog expenses - like food etc.., I have set up a separate category for that.

Gas canisters to keep his van warm (he often does 24 hour shifts so stays in a van with cooking facitlities and heating). I am sure the accountant would say that is Travel as well but I'm not so sure.

But I am just guessing and don't know enough to see the big picture and if I am categorising things correctly.

Is there anything (book, online site) that tells you what categories to put expenses into when entering them into Quickbooks online software? I have tried googling but not really coming up with anything useful. Should I just be viewing things from a self assessment point of view and looking at the HMRC site?

The business does not have enough income to need to be VAT registered but is starting to move into a higher tax bracket so I do need to deal with the expenses properly.

No I am not being paid lolol.
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Comments

  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,014 Forumite
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    QB has two separate ways of classifying things: I can't from memory remember how they are described, but that might be part of the confusion for you. I know one is 'class' and the other might be 'account', but that doesn't mean bank account. Or it might be something different. Sorry haven't used it for yonks.

    The main thing is to be utterly utterly consistent at this stage. If you then find that 'fuel' needs to be in a different class, at least it will all be in the same place to start with.
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  • maisie_cat
    maisie_cat Posts: 2,067 Forumite
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    create a separate account for fuel. it is better to have more accounts and add them together. having to go through the detail in an account with a highlighter to separate is soul destroying. Print of the returns from hmrc website, it will give you a good idea ofvwhat is required. I am a qualified acct and if you go to the effort of the books the actual returns are easy. Your husband's business does not sound complicated. good luck with your studies
  • I'm an accountant and I'm sorry but I inwardly (and outwardly) scream when a client uses Quickbooks. It's not user friendly for either the user or the accountant in my experience.

    That said, I'd second the advice to keep things consistent and to use more rather than fewer categories - it is definitely easier to lump rather than split at year end time.

    Can I ask why he chose that particular accountant if he doesn't seem to know much about it?
  • I'm an accountant and I'm sorry but I inwardly (and outwardly) scream when a client uses Quickbooks. It's not user friendly for either the user or the accountant in my experience.

    I'm glad you said that. I keep seeing the adverts, and think I 'ought' to use it (I currently still use an XL spreadsheet our accountant provided for us 6 years ago, which works well for us and I'm assuming works well for them). I had a flirtation with Sage a few years ago and despite doing the 6 months (6 months!!) online training I was no further forward and gave it up as a bad job.

    My advice is - whatever you do, keep it simple. Accountants basically charge by the hour, so the easier you make it for them, the less it will cost you.
    No longer a spouse, or trailing, but MSE won't allow me to change my username...
  • Pennywise
    Pennywise Posts: 13,468 Forumite
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    I'm an accountant and I'm sorry but I inwardly (and outwardly) scream when a client uses Quickbooks.

    I'm the same, but I scream whenever a client comes in who's decided to train themselves to use ANY book-keeping software. Quickbooks is bad, but Sage is downright awful. Self-training is always a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I always sit down for a couple of hours to show them exactly what and how to enter for their business, so we can cut out all the unnecessary stuff and keep it simple.

    There are lots of different QB versions though. The desktop versions are very different to the modern online versions, and there are different "levels" within each, i.e. simplestart for very simple businesses is pretty much idiot proof. Just as the basic entry level Sage online is likewise idiot proof. It's the more comprehensive versions that are problematic.

    There are others which are not only easier to use, but easier for the accountant to correct, such as Kashflow or VT, where the accountant can tick a whole variety of entries in one code and move them to another at just 2 or 3 mouse clicks. That kind of functionality saves so much time and means the old quandry of which code to use doesn't matter so much. On the contrary, with others, such as Sage and QB, you have to make that kind of correction on an entry by entry basis which can take hours!

    But I would agree with Maisie - the more accounts the better, and also dancing_star with being consistent.
  • Pennywise
    Pennywise Posts: 13,468 Forumite
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    (I currently still use an XL spreadsheet our accountant provided for us 6 years ago, which works well for us and I'm assuming works well for them)

    Sadly, with MTD coming in, use of spreadsheets will become a thing of the past. If you're VAT registered, you'll have to submit VAT figures by accounting software from 2019 (they're closing their online website submission system. They would accept data based on a spreadsheet, but only using some kind of spreadsheet conversion software, for which no software providers have yet indicated any intention to make!). If you're not VAT registered, you have more time, but compulsion of data submission via software will come eventually, all part of HMRC's master plan to scrap tax returns!
  • Pennywise wrote: »
    Quickbooks is bad, but Sage is downright awful. Self-training is always a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

    I actually like Sage. Probably because i'm most familiar with it. I am quite impressed by Xero as well. Not seen Kashflow or VT.

    Pennywise wrote: »
    There are lots of different QB versions though. The desktop versions are very different to the modern online versions, and there are different "levels" within each, i.e. simplestart for very simple businesses is pretty much idiot proof. Just as the basic entry level Sage online is likewise idiot proof. It's the more comprehensive versions that are problematic.
    .

    I find the online QB awful. Keeps crashing, and takes ages to work your way round the reports.

    I would say that without properly reconciling the bank on a regular and frequent basis there is little point in using accounting software. The accountant will have to unpick it all anyway. So yes, I agree, proper training, not self-training, is the best approach.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,323 Forumite
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    edited 7 October 2017 at 7:58PM
    Very glad I posted, thank you for your answers.

    Unfortunately I told my Ex to not sign anything until we'd discussed it but he did sign an agreement to pay £140 a month for full bookeeping. I then managed to negotiate that down to just three months at £140 each to cover the three months of work needed to produce a self assessment return for Jan-Mar 2017 for the 2016-17 Tax year. This included free training so I could do the bookeeping. Plus £200 for the self assessment. So I guess a bit of a fools agreement. But given the advice he's given so far, wouldn't be confident we wouldn't find ourselves in trouble with HMRC at a later date. he just doesn't seem able to understand our business, perhaps more used to Limited Company accounts, I don't know.

    The free training seemed to show he didn't really know how QBs online worked, hadn't set up any of the categories I needed (which we had specified) with him saying that he needed them to have numbers consistent with his company codes (I hope that makes sense) which he didn't supply. I'd have appreciated a list of categories with the code numbers his company used to make life easier if he couldn't input them into our QB himself.

    QBs, yes its a bit of a nightmare. Even with advice from QBs and looking at numerous forums been unable to get an essential special field to show up when printing out invoices (shows in QBs not when printed inspite of altering printer settings in QBs). But from replies on here, it looks like we have to be using some sort of accounting software.

    I've sent three emails to our accountant without a single reply so it looks like we have to figure it out for ourselves.

    I can't figure out, for example, how to enter the vehicles my ex has purchased. Put a vehicle category under tangible assets (know I have to create a subcategory for each vehicle) but how do I actually enter the vehicle into there - through an expenses window?

    I do feel I could make a major mistake just through lack of accounting /tax knowledge and how to do things with QBs. And well, an accountant who didn't seem to understand a dog needs feeding so is dog food is an allowable expense (he's obviously essential to the work my ex does)? Then there's my exs food. Tax rules are complicated. He often does 24 hour shifts and has to eat on the job, but is the food he buys allowable (he doesn't buy takeaways we are talking well under the fiver a day allowance)? I just don't know enough and not getting answers I can trust if I get any, from our accountant. But stuck with him because of the agreement. My ex hasn't kept a record of his mileage so does that mean we will have disputes over the fuel costs later on? Accountant doesn't seem to be available to ask.

    It wasn't until the training we realised he probably wasn't right for the business. But too late by then.
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,014 Forumite
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    Just going to pick up on the mileage and suggest some damage limitation here. From now on he really should log his mileage, but if he hasn't, then he needs to get his work diary / records, open google maps, and write down the google maps mileage for each work day.

    If you say he doesn't keep records of where he's worked each day, as this is your ex, I'd suggest washing your hands of the whole situation ...
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,323 Forumite
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    edited 8 October 2017 at 2:57AM
    He does keep records of where he works & for how long very stringently (invoicing his client depends on that). But no records of mileage. Bit strange because he did record mileage when working as an employee. But will be keeping a record of his mileage from now on.

    Have been on at him to get things organised for 9 months lol.., he's done pretty well keeping receipts but its obviously a bit of a job entering everything now, 9 months on. But got to be done.

    I have booked myself for a Quickbooks Webinar on October 11th. Going to another accountant next week. Badly need tax advice relevant to the business type. Not sure what we'll do about the initial accountant. Might have to just take our losses on that mistake, we'll see. Better than finding the business with an unexpected tax bill but hoping I can just pay him for the unhelpful 2 hour training session.
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