Over 50s Life Insurance Plans Guide Discussion

dunstonh wrote: »

You do realise that sole debts can be offset against joint assets?

Yes. But my assets when I die will be minimal. The car is in her name as anything of value in our home is or will be. The main assets of mine are tools which I'm selling. The creditors are welcome to sell my clothes.

Hi i have 2 plans for AXA one for myself at 14.00 a month and one for my late hubby. We had paid in 7 years.

Sadly and suddenly i lost my husband on the 3rd October. Too long a story, but his death had to go for autopsy which came up with no results so tests have been sent off, and an inquest is booked for NEXT MARCH, it could be down to an industrial asbestos death i have no idea.

Anyway I rang AXA before i knew it was going to autopsy and they said ring them when i got the death certificate and they would do the details on the phone and pay in the amount owed to my bank account. I am still not sure what the amount will be mind you.

Well obviously things changed so when the coroner said he would issue interim death certificates to sort the estate out, as soon as i received them, i rang AXA again, and he said oh we cant use this certificate over the phone you will have to wait until we send you forms in post and then send back with the interim death certificate. So ok i waited. I rang them again yesterday as no forms, and my husband is due cremation next week on 25th. The guy was obnoxious, said the forms had been sent and i would expect them 24th, so i said well thats no good, and why cant you take the reference number on the death certificate as I am sure it will come up with the same information for them, OR why not just tell me to send an original certificate with a letter they would have gotten it the next day.

So i have to wait until one day before the funeral thats if i get the forms and then it will take 2 weeks to process.

Its just lucky since we took out this stupid waste of time plan that circumstances have given me more then enough money anyway to deal with the funeral without it. However, if it had been someone who was not in that situation how on earth would they have paid for it all.

I am using the co-op as they are local and they have been amazing but even they wanted £2,000 up front to pay all the incidentals. So these plans dont really cover this. Anyone taken on a funeral plan from AXA believe me it wont cover the cost of a basic funeral and you will need to pay a deposit to any funeral director.

Our funeral which ok has a few nice bits and pieces because i can afford it, cost just under 5,000, if i had gone basic to slot in with AXA pay out we would be burying my poor hubby in the garden. He is being cremated and basic with co-op would still have been around 3,000.

The longer you pay in the more expensive funerals cost.

I am so annoyed with them though i could have sent a death certificate signed by the coroner which they would have got the next day, and to wait over 3 weeks to even get paperwork is mind blowing. I mean surely if they send the forms one day i should have gotten them within at least 2 days. Oh this guy said sadly it doesnt work that way in big businesses.

So for me I checked co-op funeral plans and if i had put down a deposit the amount i paid would have been the same as AXA.

I cancelled my policy no point in wasting 14.00 a month i am just getting a POA so a member of my family have access to my savings, and then executor can sell the house, so no need for it now.

Oh yes and the amount of times i have had letters off axa asking me to take on better plan, I had one for my husband yesterday and well yes it went into the bin.

AXA sucks. They have no compassion, and i really do feel sorry as if i had been some poor widow she would have been a right state now if no savings. :mad:

Hi not sure if I'm posting on the right bit I'm new to this. Really need some advice for my parents. They've been paying into a life insurance policy for 37 years roughly, in recent years around £50 a month and the pay out was set at £46000 on either of their deaths. They both turned 70 recently, they received a letter to say the payment will now reduce to £16000 and if they no longer want to pay into it they can close the account and receive £800. My Mam is devastated. Is this legal?? How can it suddenly drop £30000? Where can we seek advice? They've been told they need to decide in 14 days.

Termagant1. ..A 'Win-Win-No-Brainer', not quite. You are right though it is an outright punt.

Your gamble however, is substantially with your creditors money at stake, not your own.

Are you aware that it is a criminal offence to take credit (even unsecured loans) if you know beforehand that you have no intention of making repayment in full?

You confirm that you didn't know that you were going to die (soon) when you applied for the credit facility, but, your responsibility for disclosure doesn't stop just because a credit facility has already been agreed.

From the date that you were informed that you are unlikely to survive more than a year, you have a responsibility not to borrow further monies in the certain knowledge that you cannot make repayment. The money is not a grant, it is a loan agreement and subject to repayment.

You are not considering spending the creditors money on food because you are starving (or heating because you are freezing), you are considering spending the money on a calculated gamble, with significant potential financial reward. Therefore your motive is greed rather than necessity.

Several gamblers are in prison today because they have gambled away money which they obtained by deception, their gambling addiction not a mitigating factor.

Credit card companies and banks usually also tend to want to be informed of a change in circumstances such as loss of job or substantial change of income (it is the debtors responsibility). I imagine that your recent unfortunate circumstances may therefore be deemed notifiable, read the very, very small print in your credit card and banking agreements that you would have signed (and read word for word).

You may think that you won't be around to worry about prosecution, true, but the creditor may find evidence after your death that you were aware of your situation at the time you took credit funds (your medical records being the most obvious source of information). The creditor (if discovering this) would have a right to compensation, simply placing your insurance money in Trust I believe would be no protection from the creditor if such a Trust facility is deemed ( by the court) to be part of the deception.

Far worse, the insurance company might even have a clause of not paying out if they deem that premiums paid were funds obtained as a result of deception by pecuniary advantage (a kind of Fraud), they have money laundering concerns to occupy themselves with.

Add to this , the creditors considerable costs in recovery through the courts (which they inflate to the nth degree). However, I suggest that even if your wife were to pay your credit card/bank overdraft debts in full as soon as possible after your death, the creditor may (or may not) be concerned. Remember the death certificate reveals the cause of death, and cancer is rarely so sudden, this may well be cause for obvious suspicion and further investigation into medical records.

Even if your wife commits to settle the accounts in full (and if your wife is in a position to pay), there is still the question of having obtained funds by pecuniary advantage, again knowledge of this may (or may not) arise if your creditors account is settled. You have however already blabbed about it on this forum, and I assume that your wife may know of your plan, if so, that might make her involved in a criminal offence (as she would be a beneficiary).

There you have it, in my view (at worse) you may be risking putting your wife in considerable financial distress at not being able to repay funds/court expenses, not receiving an insurance settlement and ultimately, spending up to a year in prison.

If any person insured in most over 50 plans were to die within the qualifying period (usually 12 to 24 months), yes, the estate will have only the premiums (already paid) returned, but remember that you will have accrued interest on your loans.

I know of someone that had a kind of throat cancer and given 12 months to live, thankfully he lived for several years more. Have you considered that if you do live far longer than expected, that the interest on credit card borrowing or overdraft facility could likely be considerable, and that you may not be able to afford the insurance premiums in the years ahead because your family circumstances may change.

I know that if I were in your shoes with a very short life expectancy , I would definitely consider buying the insurance policy (nothing immoral in that) but I would pay the premium at a monthly amount limited to that which I could comfortably afford with my own money, definitely not with a creditors money.

Could I suggest you at least consider the possibility of cancelling your current policy and starting afresh with a more affordable premium that you can afford (or just reduce the existing premium if the insurance company will agree to such a request within the first year), without recourse to credit facility?

Before you decide anything, if you have further questions you should consider taking advice from a professional. I am not a lawyer or financial advisor and nothing I have mentioned here can be construed as professional advice. And, of course, I may well be wrong.