No relationship between father and son...

2

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  • POPPYOSCAR
    POPPYOSCAR Posts: 14,897
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    It would seem to me that abuse is taking place here.

    Both to the mother but in particular their son.

    Their son is 12 years old, a child in crisis by the sound of things.

    A parent should not stop talking to their child because they are naughty. Incredible IMO.
  • sammy_kaye18
    sammy_kaye18 Posts: 3,635
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    Hi All

    Thank you for all your input firstly.

    Secondly - the eldest son doesn't live with us but the mother banned him from seeing his dad fro years, they weren't particularly close whilst he was growing up but now he is a teenager and rebelling against his mother he has found a bond with his father. Whilst he was going through the awkward beginning of teenage years my husband wasn't really allowed to be there for him so he is experiencing all the changes for the first time with our son.

    At the time our son was born, he was not seeing his eldest , so they were incredibly close and he was a very hands on dad and doted on him. He also doted on our daughter as well as he had wanted a girl.

    Part of me thinks its because he doesnt know how to handle this as he has no experience of this sort of behaviour, and part of me thinks he is just being an !!!!. I have had some experience - my own sister was a little f***er in school and ended up arrested at 17 and was in court all her major birthdays so Im use to seeing discipline etc handed out by my parents whereas he hasnt.

    I feel awful for it but I made a point yesterday of taking a picture of my boy sat building circuits with his grandad and put it on my social media page.....it got plenty of likes and lots of comments about how sweet it was. Husband came home and talked to our son briefly.

    I also made a point today of talking to my husband and saying I think it is a cry for attention and that even though he has been naughty - he is still 12 and he needs his dad.......I didn't get a response though so I am wondering if he has been mulling it over today - although I think that is wishful thinking.

    To his credit - my son was on report for the first day today and has come home with 'Excellent' for all his subjects and shining comments bar one which was he had to be told to spit his gum out, but apart from that I'm landed that he is doing well and thought of highly by his teachers.

    I will update you all later on what happens tonight.

    I think maybe the family counselling is something to look into but my husband very much revolves around his eldest when he is here and if he doesnt want to do something , then my husband doesnt really make him. But I will look into it.
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  • FBaby
    FBaby Posts: 18,367
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    You husband IS the adult and needs to act like one. So he has some issues with his boy's behaviour, but it is as much his responsible to learn how to handle it as you.

    I bet deep inside he feels really guilty and knows it is wrong, but if he can bury his head in the sand, he'll continue to do so. You are doing the right to remind him that his behaviour is not acceptable and more than that, contributing to your boy's own behaviour.
  • Jackieboy
    Jackieboy Posts: 1,010 Forumite
    POPPYOSCAR wrote: »
    It would seem to me that abuse is taking place here.

    Both to the mother but in particular their son.

    Their son is 12 years old, a child in crisis by the sound of things.

    A parent should not stop talking to their child because they are naughty. Incredible IMO.

    Well - there's several exaggerations all in one post!
  • KiKi
    KiKi Posts: 5,377
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    edited 14 October 2016 at 9:54PM
    Hi All
    His attitude is he doesn't want to bother with him if hes going to be such a naughty child so why should he speak to him.

    Does he realise that a) he raised this child so has some responsibility here; b) your son screwed up *once* by missing *one* lesson and mucking about in the toilets...yes, needs to be nipped in the bud, but hardly crime of the century; and c) HE'S THE PARENT AND A GROWN ADULT?

    He's behaving like a teenager: "He's been mean so I'm not talking to him." Does your OH have any idea how ignoring a child can create that sense of abandonment? How cruel that is? How damaging his words can be? His role is to love and to guide and to discipline, not to throw a hissy fit because his son isn't perfect. Maybe you should treat your husband like that, see how he likes it for a week.

    I remember watching a parenting show on TV some years ago where the super nanny (or whoever) gave the dad a bow and arrows and made him shoot arrows into a picture of his daughter's face. After the first one she told him this is what is was like for his daughter, every time he was unkind to her. The dad was sobbing as he shot the last few arrows. He genuinely thought that parenting by yelling or ignoring was okay behaviour, as that's what you do with peers as you grow up. He really hadn't thought about how it would impact his child.
    Hes not a bad kid, I think hes just wanting attention but has gone about it in the wrong way. Hes one of the highest decorated scouts in his pack, he raises money for charities, he volunteers, his teachers all praise him for being a kind and considerate kid and have even said the last month or so is completely out of character for him.

    He doesn't sound bad at all. It's his dad that's the problem here, from what you've posted.

    KiKi
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
  • Mupette
    Mupette Posts: 4,599 Forumite
    Jackieboy wrote: »
    Well - there's several exaggerations all in one post!

    But i can see the emotional abuse as well, abuse does not need to be physical.

    When dad lost his father, he didn't speak to mum or me for 6 months. It was awful, yes dad was mourning the loss of his dad, but he completely ignored us, it was a really horrible time. When your dad want's nothing to do with you and you haven't done anything wrong. In turn it made mum upset and she would then take out her frustrations out on me, it was a very cold 6 months.

    The OP's son needs to know he is loved and in a happy home from both parents, seeing your own father ignore you, and probably hear the comments he has said about his will hurt, and cause anger and frustration, and so the boy is taking this out by being silly in school, its a vicious circle at a very emotional time for the teen.

    Maybe you have not had such experiences in your life, maybe you have learnt to grow a thick skin and can handle anything, doesn't make you a superstar, makes you come across as cold and callous and i am sure deep down you are not.
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  • Kynthia
    Kynthia Posts: 5,665
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    Having a rough time, going through a bad patch, not communicating in the best way, being unfair at times, anything that upsets a child, etc are not abuse. You belittle actual abuse (including mental) when you overuse the term.

    Yes the dad needs to change now that his son is becoming a teenager and changing. I hope he does.
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
  • Jackieboy
    Jackieboy Posts: 1,010 Forumite
    Mupette wrote: »
    But i can see the emotional abuse as well, abuse does not need to be physical.

    When dad lost his father, he didn't speak to mum or me for 6 months. It was awful, yes dad was mourning the loss of his dad, but he completely ignored us, it was a really horrible time. When your dad want's nothing to do with you and you haven't done anything wrong. In turn it made mum upset and she would then take out her frustrations out on me, it was a very cold 6 months.

    The OP's son needs to know he is loved and in a happy home from both parents, seeing your own father ignore you, and probably hear the comments he has said about his will hurt, and cause anger and frustration, and so the boy is taking this out by being silly in school, its a vicious circle at a very emotional time for the teen.

    Maybe you have not had such experiences in your life, maybe you have learnt to grow a thick skin and can handle anything, doesn't make you a superstar, makes you come across as cold and callous and i am sure deep down you are not.

    Whilst such behaviout isn't going to win any parenting awards, labelling any less than perfect strategies as "abuse" is counterproductive and an insult to all those children who are genuinely abused, both emotionally and physically. It's on a par with calling someone who disagrees with you a bully, which also happens frequently on here.
  • Jackieboy wrote: »
    Whilst such behaviout isn't going to win any parenting awards, labelling any less than perfect strategies as "abuse" is counterproductive and an insult to all those children who are genuinely abused, both emotionally and physically. It's on a par with calling someone who disagrees with you a bully, which also happens frequently on here.

    Not necessarily - after all, if a parent is disinterested for years when the kid has been, to all intents and purposes, a model child, to ignore it when they do something wrong reinforces the 'I don't care about you'. Why bother being well behaved, why bother being the one who does their homework, why bother walking away from stuff that sounds like a laugh if the only reward is the parent just not caring one way or the other?

    I wonder whether the not seeing the eldest was a response to his father not being particularly interested in the boy earlier? It often gets painted as the evil ex doing it to get back at the absent parent, but it's not always the case; sometimes it's the result of somebody having had enough of arguments about refusing to attend parents' evenings, not bothering with any school plays, not taking the kid out but leaving the other parent to be the only one engaged with their child and perhaps ignoring the child whether they do well or get into trouble. And, yes, seeing the absent parent suddenly become a hands on parent with a subsequent child when they've not been remotely interested in their first child's existence or wellbeing.


    The final part of that could also translate to your son - he's gone from feeling close to his father to possibly feeling cast aside once the eldest was back in the picture. To the extent that he's almost accepted it, going by his 'Three Musketeers' analogy. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt still, but it's sad that he has been put in that position by his father.

    Refusing to speak to a child is abusive - it's sending the message that 'I don't care about you'. There's a whole world of difference between 'I don't know what to say and I don't want to say the wrong thing because I'm disappointed/angry, so I'm going to take a little time to think before I speak' and 'I'm not speaking to HIM [because I know that will hurt /I don't actually care/I've got my boy so don't need to waste my time with another kid]', the latter being how it could feel to your son.


    It's not easy and, whilst the actual events leading to this aren't in themselves hugely significant (skivving off one lesson and being a bit of a wally, then getting caught because a mate is an ever bigger wally), as they're the sort of daft things that teenagers get up to at school - although I would point out to him that seriously, it's really not worth the hassle to be chewing gum in class when you're on report - the underlying stuff is significant.

    You can't make a parent care or be interested. But you can let your son talk about it to you if he wants, encourage time with his grandfather and hopefully the knowledge of the love and care that the rest of you freely give him will give him the emotional strength to cope with the failings of his father.

    Oh, and bearing in mind his age, he'll probably do a couple more daft things and still be forgetting to do his homework right up until halfway through Year 10 :). It's what teenagers do - by year 11, all but a very few, usually those from the most chaotic homes, are sorted.
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  • GwylimT
    GwylimT Posts: 6,530
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    You could be describing my mother!

    Virtually all kids are a bit of a nightmare at times, normally theres a clear reason, so in this case if a lack if positive attention from dad is a major cause, then your son will struggle to overcome this properly until his father starts being a father.

    No parents are perfect, but all parents should be doing their very best no matter how frustrating etc it can sometimes be.
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