PCN at IAS appeal stage - I need help!

whoopseedaisy · 23 October 2014 at 2:11AM

Hi everyone

Stumbled across this forum when looking for advice on how to appeal to the IAS about a PCN that my partner received a few weeks ago at bluewater from Parking Company Management. I initially appealed on his behalf to PCM on the basis that the charge was disproportionate to the loss incurred, but it was rejected. I've had a look at the newbie sticky but this all seems like a bit of a minefield and I want to get it right! I understand that the appeal has to be in on partners name as he's the keeper of the car but I'm looking for some advice about what to include in my letter if possible?

I've uploaded the PCN and the rejection letter I received; here are the links without the bit at the beginning that I'm not allowed to post:

i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah80/whoopseedaisy/IMG_20141023_013322_zps87300564.jpg

i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah80/whoopseedaisy/IMG_20141023_011858_zps78b8b2bf.jpg

I've read quite a few threads on this now but all the legal jargon is throwing me a bit! I'm thinking I could argue this based on a contract not being formed between the driver and PCM, the terms of the contract being unfair, the signage not conforming to regulations (I'm guessing that though after reading other threads regarding PCN's received at bluewater) and that I can't be contracted to something I'm not permitted to do, which makes this an issue of breach, in which case they have to prove loss... am I along the right lines?

I think I've only got a couple of weeks left to appeal so any help with regard to what to what to include and wording would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

EnigmaPart1 · 23 October 2014 at 4:39AM

Be prepared to lose, next time you get one from the IAS done appeal to the parking company (as such) we have a better solution

whoopseedaisy · 23 October 2014 at 5:25PM

Thanks for your reply, do you think it's worth appealing or should we just pay the charge and put it down to a lesson learnt? Also, just so I can be clear for the future, should we have waited for the Notice to Keeper before appealing? Sorry for all the questions!

Fergie76 · 23 October 2014 at 6:30PM

Of course it's worth appealing. However, the IAS is a lot more difficult to win at as they side withe PPC whenever they can and even when they can't will try and manipulate win for the PPC. Have a look at the IAS Decisions thread and see what has won previously and try come up with your own appeal, using previous winning points. But be aware, with this bunch, just because the were previous winning points, doesn't mean they will be in the future.

Fergie76 · 23 October 2014 at 6:33PM

EnigmaPart1 wrote: »

Be prepared to lose, next time you get one from the IAS done appeal to the parking company (as such) we have a better solution

Who is we? Your company or the forum?

And as the IAS appeal has not been submitted yet, why not help, rather than just saying "be prepared to lose".

Your solution is obviously the service address provide by YOUR company for a price. Why not just be up front about it?

Coupon-mad · 24 October 2014 at 8:30PM

whoopseedaisy wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, do you think it's worth appealing or should we just pay the charge and put it down to a lesson learnt? Also, just so I can be clear for the future, should we have waited for the Notice to Keeper before appealing? Sorry for all the questions!

Yes do try - show us your draft appeal based on others you see in 'IAS decisions' and based on searching for the same PPC (just stick 'PCM' into 'search this forum' and find the recent ones - some lost and some won!).

A lot depends on the signage. Please show us the signs! Urgently.

Here are your other pics:
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/whoopseedaisy/media/IMG_20141023_013322_zps87300564.jpg.html

http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/whoopseedaisy/media/IMG_20141023_011858_zps78b8b2bf.jpg.html

Now that rejection letter is VERY useful going by the words about why the car got a charge!

Also I am interested to know why you think your choices are only 'pay or appeal'? What's wrong with ignoring it, either now or if you lose at IAS? You will find several people in that boat when you search for other IAS decisions and PCM cases. Did you not realise you don't have to pay, never had to pay and what do you think people did before the 'appeal' existed just two years ago? NO-ONE here PAID then and still no-one pays this scam now! Fake PCNs have been ignored and laughed at for years and years. Yes the odd case goes to a small claim - big deal. Defendable and has no effect on credit rating if a person actually loses then pays up (and no high costs either). Paying should not be in your list of choices.

Can you also tell us, did you give away who was driving in your appeal words? Hope not as you've chucked a whole appeal point out of the window, if so. You 'should' have waited for the NTK in my view but more important was simply NOT saying 'I parked'. I really hope you didn't. Either way don't pay the thing!

EnigmaPart1 · 24 October 2014 at 9:03PM

Fergie76 wrote: »

Who is we? Your company or the forum?

And as the IAS appeal has not been submitted yet, why not help, rather than just saying "be prepared to lose".

Your solution is obviously the service address provide by YOUR company for a price. Why not just be up front about it?

1. I didn't come down in the last shower, i am very realistic and what can be and what cant be done. So rather then waste time giving any kind of false hope and leading people down a garden path use a simple straight forward solution

2. No one has to pay for a service address. However if others wont provide then having it at a small cost is a good viable option. Perhaps if you thought outside the box and if perhaps if people were more prepared to get more involved then just tapping away on a keyboard, lots of people could provide service addresses, spread the load.

3. Perhaps you could take the lead and volunteer your services?

whoopseedaisy · 24 October 2014 at 9:30PM

Hello again

Thank you all so much for your replies, I'll draft something and post it up if ok so you can check my wording as legal stuff isn't my strong point! I'll also try and get to bluewater at some point over the next week to get pics of signage... I'm not local to bluewater so I'll have to plan a trip back there!

Personally, I have never paid a pcn, but then I've only had a couple and I've somehow managed to get them withdrawn. I've never waited until the NtK came through - I only realised that when I read the newbie sticky... and it's also reassuring to know that the consequences of small claims court aren't as dire as they're made to sound by the pcn's! My boyfriend is freaking out about it though and is keen to try and get it cancelled rather than just ignoring it. I'll try and encourage him to ignore it if they appeal is lost.

In the original appeal I used the word 'we'... does that admit liability?

4consumerrights · 24 October 2014 at 9:57PM

As this was at Bluewater - how about also formal letter of complaint to the manager of the site stating that you are now being harassed by PCM as a customer etc etc....

"We" would need to see the whole appeal - however to be perfectly honest with you as this was appealed at the windscreen stage it is probably academic.

There is nothing to lose by making a formal appeal however you have wasted over a week already - Remember there are only 21 days to appeal.

It is also not worth spending too much time in doing the appeal but I would recommend wording at the end along the lines that:

It has been noted that the IAS state that their appeals are adjudicated by independent solicitors or barristers however no named person is ever given on any appeal made. It is also noted that the appeals are all sent to the registered offices of the Independent Parking Committee and that the directors of this are also directors and shareholders of Gladstones Solicitors. The link between Gladstones solicitors and the services they offer the parking companies is also fully documented.

Please note that any liability to pay this parking charge notice is vigorously denied and any further action this appeal not be granted will be vigorously defended.

It is therefore requested that the name and qualification of the Adjudicator are provided to me on this appeal outcome and that failure to provide this will resort to formal complaints to the SRA and other relevant bodies.

whoopseedaisy · 24 October 2014 at 11:46PM

Thanks 4consumerrights, I've drafted something based on Popcorns winning appeal letter but I won't post it until I've checked the signage, which I'm going to try and do this weekend now as I need it out of the way!

Also, I've emailed Robert Goodman using the details I found in another thread and got an out-of-office response to say his email has changed... you may already be aware but just in case you're not, it's now robert.goodman @ bluewater.co.uk.

PCN at IAS appeal stage - I need help!

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free