Anyone used EU Claim/Bott & Co?
kuepper
Posts: 1,360 Forumite
these were highlighted in an article in the Guardian as someone to use to claim on your behalf in exchange for a 25 euro fee plus 27% of the compensation but when you're asked to sign up it's not that straightforward and could end up out of pocket whatever the outcome. here's their explanation:.
1. What do I pay if I win?
If you win your claim you pay us an administration fee of 25 euros and our charges. You pay our disbursements
in any event and on our request and the payment of disbursements is not conditional on success and is not
deferred to the end of the case. You may be able to claim from your opponent part or all of our charges and our
disbursements.
If you win overall but on the way lose an interim hearing you may be required to pay your opponents charges of
that hearing. If on the way to winning or losing you are awarded any costs by agreement or Court Order then
we are entitled to payment of those costs immediately.
2. What do I pay if I lose?
If you lose you pay your opponents charges and disbursements. You may be able to take out an insurance
policy against this risk. If you lose you do not pay our charges but you may be required to pay our
disbursements.
Ending This Agreement
3. If you end this Agreement before you win or lose you pay our charges and disbursements. We may end this
Agreement before you win or lose.
Charges
4. These are for work done from the date specified in the Agreement until the end of the Agreement. This
Agreement includes within its scope a retrospective claim for work done prior to when the Agreement is signed.
These charges are subject to annual review.
5. How we calculate our basic charges.
These are calculated for each hour engaged on your claim. Routine letters and telephone calls will be charged
as units of one tenth of an hour. Other letters and telephone calls will be charged on a time basis. The hourly
rate which applies is £220 per hour plus VAT. We review the hourly rate on the 1
st April of each year and we
will notify you of any change in the rate in writing.
Value Added Tax
6. We add VAT at the rate (now 20%) that applies when the work is done to the total of the charges.
Law Society Conditions
7. The Law Society Conditions below are part of this Agreement. Any amendments or additions to them will apply
to you. You should read the conditions carefully and ask us about anything you find unclear.
Our Responsibilities
8. We must:
(i) Always act in your best interest subject to our duty to the Court;
(ii) Explain to you the risk and benefits of taking legal action;
(iii) Give you our best advice about whether to accept any offer of settlement;
(iv) Give you the best information possible about the likely costs of your claim.
Your Responsibilities
9. You must:
(i) Give us instructions that allow us to do our work properly;
(ii) Not ask us to work in an improper or unreasonable way;
(iii) Not deliberately mislead us;
(iv) Co-operate with us.
Dealing with Costs if You Win
10. If you win you are liable to pay our charges and our disbursements.
We will waive the right to enforce our claim for charges and disbursements against you to the extent that those
charges and disbursements including VAT exceed the total sum of (i) and (ii) and (iii):
(i) 27% of damages recovered;
(ii) An administration fee of €25;
(iii) Any sums recovered from the opponent by way of costs.
You may be able to claim our charges and disbursements from your opponent.
If we and your opponent cannot agree the amount, the Court will decide how much you can recover.
You agree to pay into a designated account any cheque received by you or by use from your opponent and made
payable to you. Out of the money you agree to let us take the balance of the charges, administration fee, disbursements
and any VAT. You take the rest.
We are allowed to keep any interest your opponent is ordered or agrees to pay on the costs.
If your Opponent Fails to Pay
11. If your opponent does not pay any damages or costs owed to you we have the right to take recovery action in
your name to enforce a judgment order or agreement. The charges of this action become part of the charges
under this agreement.
Payment for Advocacy
12. The costs of advocacy and other work by us or by any solicitor or agent on our behalf forms part of our basic
charges. We shall discuss with you the identity of any barrister instructed in the arrangements made for
payment.
Barristers who have a Conditional Fee with Us
13. You may be entitled to recover their fee from your opponent. We will discuss the barrister’s fee with you before
we instruct him or her. If you lose you pay the barrister nothing.
Barristers who do not have a Conditional Fee Agreement with Us
14. If you win, then you may be entitled to recover all or part of their fee from your opponent. If you lose then you
must pay their fee.
What Happens when this Agreement Ends before your Claim for Damages End
15. (a) Paying us if you end this agreement.
You can end this agreement at any time. You then have the right to decide whether you must pay our
basic or pay our charges and our disbursements including barrister’s fees immediately or pay them if
you go on to win your claim.
(b) Paying us if we end this agreement.
We can end this agreement if you do not keep to your responsibilities. You then have the right to
decide whether you must:
Pay our charges and our disbursements when we as for them; or
Pay our basic charges and our disbursements if you go on to win your claim.
16. We can end this agreement if we believe you are unlikely to win. If this happens you will only have to pay our
disbursements.
17. We can end this agreement if you reject our opinion about making a settlement with our opponent and you must
then pay our charges and our disbursements. If you ask us to get a second opinion from a solicitor or counsel
outside our firm we will do so but you must pay the cost of that opinion.
18. We can end this agreement if you become insolvent by reason of bankruptcy, entering into a voluntary
arrangement or howsoever. You must then pay the basic charges and our disbursements.
19. This agreement automatically ends if you die before your claim is concluded and we will be entitled to recover
our charges up to the date of your death from your estate. If your personal representatives wish to continue
your claim for damages we may offer then a new conditional fee agreement.
What Happens after this Agreement Ends
20. After this agreement ends we may apply to have our name removed from the record of any court proceedings in
which we are acting unless you have another form of funding and have asked us to work for you. We will have
the right to preserve our lien unless another solicitor working for you undertakes to pay us what we are owed if
you win.
Explanations of Words Used
(a)
Administration Fee - The sum of €25.
(b)
Advocacy - Appearing for you at Court hearings.
(c)
Charges - Our charges for the legal work we do as solicitors on your claim.
(d)
Claim - Your claim or the defence of any counterclaim brought against you whether or not court proceedings are
offered.
(e)
Costs - Charges, administration fees, disbursements, and any applicable tax including VAT.
(f)
Counterclaim - A claim which your opponent makes against you in response to your claim.
(g)
Disbursements - Payments we make on your behalf including but not limited to court fees, expert fees, travelling
expenses and barrister’s fees.
(h)
Interim Damages - Money that the court says your opponent must pay or your opponent agrees to pay or
waiting for a settlement or a court’s final decision.
(i)
Interim Hearing - A court hearing that is not final.
(j)
Lien - Our right to keep all papers, documents, money or other property held on your behalf until all money due
to us is paid. Lien may be applied after this agreement ends.
(k)
Lose - The court has dismissed your claim or you have stopped it on our advice.
(l)
Part 36 offers - An offer to settle your claim made in accordance with Part 36 of the Civil Procedural Rules.
(m)
Trial - The final contested hearing or the contested hearing of any issue to be tried separately and a reference to
a claim concluding at trial includes a claim settled after the trial has commenced or a judgment.
(n)
Win - “Win” means that you recover damages or compensation or obtain other relief or succeed on any issue
and/or on an order for costs is made in your favour or an agreement is reached to pay costs in your favour stage
in your claim.
(o)
Finally - Finally means that your opponent is not allowed to appeal against the court decision or has not
appealed in time or has lost any appeal.
1. What do I pay if I win?
If you win your claim you pay us an administration fee of 25 euros and our charges. You pay our disbursements
in any event and on our request and the payment of disbursements is not conditional on success and is not
deferred to the end of the case. You may be able to claim from your opponent part or all of our charges and our
disbursements.
If you win overall but on the way lose an interim hearing you may be required to pay your opponents charges of
that hearing. If on the way to winning or losing you are awarded any costs by agreement or Court Order then
we are entitled to payment of those costs immediately.
2. What do I pay if I lose?
If you lose you pay your opponents charges and disbursements. You may be able to take out an insurance
policy against this risk. If you lose you do not pay our charges but you may be required to pay our
disbursements.
Ending This Agreement
3. If you end this Agreement before you win or lose you pay our charges and disbursements. We may end this
Agreement before you win or lose.
Charges
4. These are for work done from the date specified in the Agreement until the end of the Agreement. This
Agreement includes within its scope a retrospective claim for work done prior to when the Agreement is signed.
These charges are subject to annual review.
5. How we calculate our basic charges.
These are calculated for each hour engaged on your claim. Routine letters and telephone calls will be charged
as units of one tenth of an hour. Other letters and telephone calls will be charged on a time basis. The hourly
rate which applies is £220 per hour plus VAT. We review the hourly rate on the 1
st April of each year and we
will notify you of any change in the rate in writing.
Value Added Tax
6. We add VAT at the rate (now 20%) that applies when the work is done to the total of the charges.
Law Society Conditions
7. The Law Society Conditions below are part of this Agreement. Any amendments or additions to them will apply
to you. You should read the conditions carefully and ask us about anything you find unclear.
Our Responsibilities
8. We must:
(i) Always act in your best interest subject to our duty to the Court;
(ii) Explain to you the risk and benefits of taking legal action;
(iii) Give you our best advice about whether to accept any offer of settlement;
(iv) Give you the best information possible about the likely costs of your claim.
Your Responsibilities
9. You must:
(i) Give us instructions that allow us to do our work properly;
(ii) Not ask us to work in an improper or unreasonable way;
(iii) Not deliberately mislead us;
(iv) Co-operate with us.
Dealing with Costs if You Win
10. If you win you are liable to pay our charges and our disbursements.
We will waive the right to enforce our claim for charges and disbursements against you to the extent that those
charges and disbursements including VAT exceed the total sum of (i) and (ii) and (iii):
(i) 27% of damages recovered;
(ii) An administration fee of €25;
(iii) Any sums recovered from the opponent by way of costs.
You may be able to claim our charges and disbursements from your opponent.
If we and your opponent cannot agree the amount, the Court will decide how much you can recover.
You agree to pay into a designated account any cheque received by you or by use from your opponent and made
payable to you. Out of the money you agree to let us take the balance of the charges, administration fee, disbursements
and any VAT. You take the rest.
We are allowed to keep any interest your opponent is ordered or agrees to pay on the costs.
If your Opponent Fails to Pay
11. If your opponent does not pay any damages or costs owed to you we have the right to take recovery action in
your name to enforce a judgment order or agreement. The charges of this action become part of the charges
under this agreement.
Payment for Advocacy
12. The costs of advocacy and other work by us or by any solicitor or agent on our behalf forms part of our basic
charges. We shall discuss with you the identity of any barrister instructed in the arrangements made for
payment.
Barristers who have a Conditional Fee with Us
13. You may be entitled to recover their fee from your opponent. We will discuss the barrister’s fee with you before
we instruct him or her. If you lose you pay the barrister nothing.
Barristers who do not have a Conditional Fee Agreement with Us
14. If you win, then you may be entitled to recover all or part of their fee from your opponent. If you lose then you
must pay their fee.
What Happens when this Agreement Ends before your Claim for Damages End
15. (a) Paying us if you end this agreement.
You can end this agreement at any time. You then have the right to decide whether you must pay our
basic or pay our charges and our disbursements including barrister’s fees immediately or pay them if
you go on to win your claim.
(b) Paying us if we end this agreement.
We can end this agreement if you do not keep to your responsibilities. You then have the right to
decide whether you must:
Pay our charges and our disbursements when we as for them; or
Pay our basic charges and our disbursements if you go on to win your claim.
16. We can end this agreement if we believe you are unlikely to win. If this happens you will only have to pay our
disbursements.
17. We can end this agreement if you reject our opinion about making a settlement with our opponent and you must
then pay our charges and our disbursements. If you ask us to get a second opinion from a solicitor or counsel
outside our firm we will do so but you must pay the cost of that opinion.
18. We can end this agreement if you become insolvent by reason of bankruptcy, entering into a voluntary
arrangement or howsoever. You must then pay the basic charges and our disbursements.
19. This agreement automatically ends if you die before your claim is concluded and we will be entitled to recover
our charges up to the date of your death from your estate. If your personal representatives wish to continue
your claim for damages we may offer then a new conditional fee agreement.
What Happens after this Agreement Ends
20. After this agreement ends we may apply to have our name removed from the record of any court proceedings in
which we are acting unless you have another form of funding and have asked us to work for you. We will have
the right to preserve our lien unless another solicitor working for you undertakes to pay us what we are owed if
you win.
Explanations of Words Used
(a)
Administration Fee - The sum of €25.
(b)
Advocacy - Appearing for you at Court hearings.
(c)
Charges - Our charges for the legal work we do as solicitors on your claim.
(d)
Claim - Your claim or the defence of any counterclaim brought against you whether or not court proceedings are
offered.
(e)
Costs - Charges, administration fees, disbursements, and any applicable tax including VAT.
(f)
Counterclaim - A claim which your opponent makes against you in response to your claim.
(g)
Disbursements - Payments we make on your behalf including but not limited to court fees, expert fees, travelling
expenses and barrister’s fees.
(h)
Interim Damages - Money that the court says your opponent must pay or your opponent agrees to pay or
waiting for a settlement or a court’s final decision.
(i)
Interim Hearing - A court hearing that is not final.
(j)
Lien - Our right to keep all papers, documents, money or other property held on your behalf until all money due
to us is paid. Lien may be applied after this agreement ends.
(k)
Lose - The court has dismissed your claim or you have stopped it on our advice.
(l)
Part 36 offers - An offer to settle your claim made in accordance with Part 36 of the Civil Procedural Rules.
(m)
Trial - The final contested hearing or the contested hearing of any issue to be tried separately and a reference to
a claim concluding at trial includes a claim settled after the trial has commenced or a judgment.
(n)
Win - “Win” means that you recover damages or compensation or obtain other relief or succeed on any issue
and/or on an order for costs is made in your favour or an agreement is reached to pay costs in your favour stage
in your claim.
(o)
Finally - Finally means that your opponent is not allowed to appeal against the court decision or has not
appealed in time or has lost any appeal.
0
Comments
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Did you end up signing the above agreement? If so how are things going? I've just received the agreement to sign but am concerned I might end up out of pocket. I've emailed them to get them to explain it in plain English!0
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EUClaim and Bott & Co, Solicitors
EUClaim is a Netherlands–based firm established to obtaincompensation for passengers under the EU Flight Compensation plan.
I have some concerns with EU Claim and its recentassociation with Wilmslow-based Bott & Co Solicitors.
Bott are persuing my claim against Easyjet under EUcompensation rules.
Five years ago when my flight was aborted EU took up theclaim on my behalf, awaiting the Strasbourg judgement, now declared. EUClaim have now asked Bott & Co topursue Easyjet.
Bott and Co’s agreement (for me to sign) requires me to
· surrender my rights to any interest awardedafter all this time.
· Whilst limiting Bott’s fees to 27% of anycompensation the agreement can require me to pay all Barrister’s fees.
· It alsorequires me to accept responsibility for Bott’s disbursements if I lose.
· If I die my estate become liable for ALL of the solicitor’sbill without limitation.
This agreement is common to all EUClaim claimants persuingtheir claim through Bott &Co and I wonder if others, having read thesolicitor’s small-print, share my concern that these obligations far outweighthe £500 or so many will be persuing.
The firm has not responded to my written concerns above.
0 -
The detail in an agreement with Bott and Co appears to show that there isn't a simple "no win no fee whatsoever" arrangement possible that so many would like.Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.0
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I did the same and got the following replyJust to confirm to you that the only fees you will pay are those EUclaim fee’s which comprise of 27% of the settlement awarded and €25.00 per passenger administration charge, there are no extra costs or up front charges for the work we do to conclude your claim for flight compensation.Liberty1577 wrote: »Did you end up signing the above agreement? If so how are things going? I've just received the agreement to sign but am concerned I might end up out of pocket. I've emailed them to get them to explain it in plain English!
We envisage that the vast majority of these claims will be allocated to the small claims track and if that is the case then there is no liability to pay the Defendant’s (The Airline) costs if the case is unsuccessful or our Company’s disbursements.
If the Judge argues complexity then the case would to be allocated to the fast or multi track we would arrange (at no cost to you) legal expense insurance that would provide full cover for all costs, including our fees, if your case were to be unsuccessful.
We are bound legally that we have to send the client, you, our Conditional Fee Agreement, we do accept that it is a lengthy and at times apparently contradictory statement. This is because we have to capture every possible eventuality but you can therefore rest assured that you will have no costs liability should you lose.
I signed on the basis that if it went pear-shaped I could use the above to show how they had misrepresented matters to me. Plus I felt the Guardian wouldn't have given them such positive PR if they were dodgy. Plus they're not far away from where I live. Things have only got as far as sending a reminder letter to Jet 2 about a month ago.
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Claim of Misrepresentation of the Offer versus one's signature on a solicitor's contract could be messy. Also that the Firm keeps all the interest seems little advertised. The emphasis on a simple 27% and a small admin fee really does misrepresent when tied to a contract with responsibility for barristers' fees. And an unlimited charge against one's estate if you die before Easyjet etc settles. (And it's been five years! OK not as bad as the Equitable Life settlement, but still each day nearer my (and your) demise.
Cheerful this isn't it!
Finally, I have put these points to Bott and Co in a letter several weeks ago, without response. There seems to be a reluctance by the Firm to comment on its position.0 -
[Text removed by MSE Forum Team].
In a purely personal capacity my advise to anybody is ONLY use a company if they can promise you the following:-
1) Fixed fee if claim is successfull
2) No charge whatsoever (be it solicitor costs, barrister feees, disbursements, Defendant's costs etc) if you loose.
The maximum you should expose yourself to is a percentage of the compensation and that should ONLY be if you win.
If a company won't agree to the above then there is (in my opinion) no point in using them.0 -
Some double negatives there CobyB, perhaps edit.Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.0
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Kuepper I had the same thought about the Guardian giving them positive PR. I got this response this morning to my email.
"Thank you for your email.
We do accept the conditional fee agreement we provide is both a lengthy and at times potentially contradictory document. The reason for this is that we have to consider every single provision that could potentially happen in the claim in an effort to ensure everything is covered. In summary below are our headline points regarding our fees:
We have been instructed by EUclaim to act on your behalf here in the UK.
There is no change to the fee structure you have already agreed with EUclaim of €25.00 administration charge and 27% of damages.
We envisage that the vast majority of these claims will be allocated to the small claims track and if that is the case then there is no liability to pay the Defendant’s costs if the case is unsuccessful or our Company’s disbursements.
If a case were to be allocated to the fast or multi track we would arrange (at no cost to you) legal expense insurance that would provide full cover for costs if your case were to be unsuccessful.
The conditional fee agreement is a standard document which details this as a “no win, no fee” agreement. It must be worded in this particular manner to cover all aspects of the claim. Therefore, to reiterate, we work on a no win, no fee basis. If we are successful you will only pay 27% of your compensation and the €25.00 administration fee as per your previous agreement. No additional money will be paid by yourself to Bott & Co. In the event we are unsuccessful and the Court rules against us there will be no charges to you.
I do hope this assists you, if you have any other queries please do not hesitate to contact us."
I then read the post by CobyBenson so asked them the 2 points he made. I got the following reply.
"That is correct as we work on a no win no fee basis you will not be liable for any costs should we be unsuccessful and if we are successful we will only charge 27% for damages and a 25 euro administration fee, you will not be liable for any additional charges."
Think on the basis of this response I will be signing. I would appreciate it if you'd keep us posted of your dealing with Botts and I will do the same.0 -
Ask them to define 'costs' and what they exclude from their definition of 'costs'.
Also ask them to define 'charges' and what they exclude from their definition of 'charges'.
Perhaps also ask them to define 'disbursements' and what they exclude from their definition of 'disbursements'.
and ask them to define 'fees' and what they exclude from their definition of 'fees.
It is the only way to get things absolutely crystal clear.Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.0 -
Ask them to define 'costs' and what they exclude from their definition of 'costs'.
Also ask them to define 'charges' and what they exclude from their definition of 'charges'.
Perhaps also ask them to define 'disbursements' and what they exclude from their definition of 'disbursements'.
and ask them to define 'fees' and what they exclude from their definition of 'fees.
It is the only way to get things absolutely crystal clear.
You make a very valid point. They actually define the terms in the agreement (towards the end of the first post).
(c) Charges - Our charges for the legal work we do as solicitors on your claim.
(e) Costs - Charges, administration fees, disbursements, and any applicable tax including VAT.
(g) Disbursements - Payments we make on your behalf including but not limited to court fees, expert fees, travelling
expenses and barrister’s fees.
So based on what they told me,
"That is correct as we work on a no win no fee basis you will not be liable for any costs should we be unsuccessful and if we are successful we will only charge 27% for damages and a 25 euro administration fee, you will not be liable for any additional charges."
I think I need to double check I won't be liable for any additional costs if we are successful?0
This discussion has been closed.
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