New rules for claiming working tax credits self employed
Comments
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Thank you Ice Queen, I haven't had a letter as of yet stating they will be investigating, just a letter informing me that they MIGHT ask for details (one that I think most people who are self-employed have had, the letter I mean). I'm assuming they will at some point so need to make preperations for when they do. Just need to ensure that I give them all relevant documentation, something I admit I am at a loss with.
£20 a week is £20 a week profit, not much per hour but still a profit that I am happy to achieve given my ailments. I work hard for that £20 and am proud of it.0 -
sherbert17 wrote: »Thank you Ice Queen, I haven't had a letter as of yet stating they will be investigating, just a letter informing me that they MIGHT ask for details (one that I think most people who are self-employed have had, the letter I mean). I'm assuming they will at some point so need to make preperations for when they do. Just need to ensure that I give them all relevant documentation, something I admit I am at a loss with.
£20 a week is £20 a week profit, not much per hour but still a profit that I am happy to achieve given my ailments. I work hard for that £20 and am proud of it.
But surely you accept your "work" is not viable as a form of self employment, it is more of a hobby?0 -
sherbert17 wrote: »Thank you Ice Queen, I haven't had a letter as of yet stating they will be investigating, just a letter informing me that they MIGHT ask for details (one that I think most people who are self-employed have had, the letter I mean). I'm assuming they will at some point so need to make preperations for when they do. Just need to ensure that I give them all relevant documentation, something I admit I am at a loss with.
£20 a week is £20 a week profit, not much per hour but still a profit that I am happy to achieve given my ailments. I work hard for that £20 and am proud of it.
byt you also have to consider that the WTC are also part of your 'wage'
how much is the total of wtc and the £20 you earn?0 -
Is making a profit not viable self-employment? Anything that I make is a profit. Someone is paying me to do the work I do. I am limited to what I can do safely and it has to have VERY limited outside contact. I complete a Self_Assessment once a year and declare both ESA and SEI. I digress. I shall not be posting anymore, I will look up what records I need to keep, and hope WTC will support and help me should the need arise.0
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How about this linkIcequeen99 wrote: »FWIW, i think Sherbert is right. There is nothing in the tax credit rules that stop anyone claiming WTC and ESA together. It is possible.
He is also correct that there is no hours requirement on the Permitted work lower limit.
However, i suspect the reason for that is that it was unlikely they expected anyone to work for 16 hours or more and only earn £20 a week.
I think the problem will come when tax credits investigate. I am astonished you got through a compliance check previously, but I would not expect you to pass under the new rules. You have not kept any records and it sounds like you may be deliberately charging a lower amount of money in order to stop yourself going over the £20. It sounds more like this is therapeutic and for social inclusion (which is what the objective of the lower permitted work level is) rather than on a commerical basis in expectation of profit.
I wouldn't panic just now. Normally they only go back to the start of the current year (they can go back further but don't tend to).
You should go and speak to an adviser and get some help to put together your information to respond to the letter and then look at whether you are entitled to anything else to make up the shortfall if you do lose WTC.
Good luck
IQ
https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/eligibility
Your ESA isn’t usually affected if you either:- earn up to £20 a week
- work for less than 16 hours a week and earn up to £104 a week, for 52 weeks or less (or for any length of time if you’re in the support group)
You can't claim to work for 16 hours or more and claim ESA and Working Tax Credits. You could earn £20 a week but that's not working. The working for less than 16 hours is the really important bit.
Sherbet, you're being twice to cover the same thing...the shortfall in your living costs. One of the benefits has to stop.
You will have an overpayment and they can be very lenient in how they recover it. If you don't have the money they can't get money out of you and won't do anything.
edit: We're not being judgemental at all it looks like a genuine mistake that you've accidentally made from having the wrong information. YOu won't be prosecuted if you genuinely believe your claim was correct.:footie:
Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. 0 -
sherbert17 wrote: »Is making a profit not viable self-employment? Anything that I make is a profit. Someone is paying me to do the work I do. I am limited to what I can do safely and it has to have VERY limited outside contact. I complete a Self_Assessment once a year and declare both ESA and SEI. I digress. I shall not be posting anymore, I will look up what records I need to keep, and hope WTC will support and help me should the need arise.
A profit only amounts to viable self employment when it reflects the number of hours worked. £20 is reflective of 3 - 4 hours work at minimum wage.
Given the length of time this has been going on you could well have an overpayment. You should seek assistance from CAB and/ or your support worker in dealing with this.0 -
How about this link
https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/eligibility
Your ESA isn’t usually affected if you either:- earn up to £20 a week
- work for less than 16 hours a week and earn up to £104 a week, for 52 weeks or less (or for any length of time if you’re in the support group)
You can't claim to work for 16 hours or more and claim ESA and Working Tax Credits. You could earn £20 a week but that's not working. The working for less than 16 hours is the really important bit.
Sherbet, you're being twice to cover the same thing...the shortfall in your living costs. One of the benefits has to stop.
You will have an overpayment and they can be very lenient in how they recover it. If you don't have the money they can't get money out of you and won't do anything.
The site says "either". They are claimin under the first bullet point.0 -
Darksparkle wrote: »The site says "either". They are claimin under the first bullet point.
ESA is an out of work benefit.
You can't work for 16 hours or more and claim ESA. You could work less than 16 hours but earn more than £104 and that too would disqualify the claimant from ESA.:footie: Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. 0 -
Icequeen99 wrote: »FWIW, i think Sherbert is right. There is nothing in the tax credit rules that stop anyone claiming WTC and ESA together. It is possible.
He is also correct that there is no hours requirement on the Permitted work lower limit.
However, i suspect the reason for that is that it was unlikely they expected anyone to work for 16 hours or more and only earn £20 a week.
I think the problem will come when tax credits investigate. I am astonished you got through a compliance check previously, but I would not expect you to pass under the new rules. You have not kept any records and it sounds like you may be deliberately charging a lower amount of money in order to stop yourself going over the £20. It sounds more like this is therapeutic and for social inclusion (which is what the objective of the lower permitted work level is) rather than on a commerical basis in expectation of profit.
I wouldn't panic just now. Normally they only go back to the start of the current year (they can go back further but don't tend to).
You should go and speak to an adviser and get some help to put together your information to respond to the letter and then look at whether you are entitled to anything else to make up the shortfall if you do lose WTC.
Good luck
IQ
i don't see how sherbet can be right.
ESA rules state that permitted work has to be for LESS than 16 hours a week and for WTC they have to work AT LEAST 16 hours a week.
no one can be eligible for both under the rules
from GOV.UK
Claiming ESA if you work
Your ESA isn’t usually affected if you either:
earn up to £20 a week
work for less than 16 hours a week and earn up to £104 a week, for 52 weeks or less (or for any length of time if you’re in the support group)
This is called ‘permitted work’.
You can also do ‘supported permitted work’ and earn up to £104 a week. This must be part of a treatment programme, or supervised by someone from a local council or voluntary organisation whose job it is to arrange work for disabled people./B]0 -
ESA is an out of work benefit.
You can't work for 16 hours or more and claim ESA. You could work less than 16 hours but earn more than £104 and that too would disqualify the claimant from ESA.
But you are referring to permitted work higher limit. They are claiming under the lower limit which does not mention working hours, only that it must be less than £20.0
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