What will a financial adviser do for me?

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  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,296 Forumite
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    Sean473 wrote: »
    Hi, If I may ask, how have you structured that portfolio which outperforms VLS60? Would like to know :)

    You do realise that outperforming VLS60 is not that difficult. VLS is not some spectacular option that is better than everything else out there.

    We buy our allocations in. The allocations are fluid and not fixed and the funds we use include managed and passive. We dont put a restriction on using passive only. So, that does not handicap the potential return.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • Jon_W
    Jon_W Posts: 108 Forumite
    dunstonh wrote: »
    Forget what the book says. Fixed interest securities go through cycles and at different points in the cycle, different types will be more favourable (and the volatility levels change with them too which means the split between equities and bonds will be fluid with it). A book is written and published on a given date. It is out of date within 6-12 months.

    But it's the only thing I have to go on, that and Lars Kroijer's, when I've got through that. If it makes sense I'd rather follow a general recommendation by 'experts' than try to find my own mix. It's like this: would I rather ride a mass-produced Yamaha motorbike or a customised Harley Davidson that I've built myself! :D
  • Jon_W
    Jon_W Posts: 108 Forumite
    bowlhead99 wrote: »

    Yes - in recent years we have seen changes on dividend tax rates and allowances for example and if you are investing a large chunk of money it makes sense to use the available wrappers that they give you. If you hadn't used your ISA allowance this year, you could do £15k into a S&S ISA before 5 April, £20k into an S&S ISA on 6 April '17, and another £20k on 6 April '18. That would be over £50k entirely protected from tax and available for investment, in the space of only 13 months. Pretty good.

    Unless you did not want so much investment risk and wanted to have more cash products in which case you might find higher rates for some of that £50k outside ISAs ( I haven't been following your whole thread)

    LISA comes with a government top up, but the downside of that top up is a penalty of greater than the top up if you want to take it out for a non-qualifying reason (i.e. you are not buying a qualifying property and you are not age 60+). So having money in a 'normal' S&S ISA, forgoing the bonus, is sensible if you may want earlier access for an emergency or some opportunity which you had not forseen today.

    For example you might decide in ten years time that you wanted to make a large pension contribution and get 40% tax relief as a higher rate tax payer (turning £6000 into £10000 for a 67% 'bonus') rather than having taken the government 25% bonus in the LISA. So using the standard 'non LISA' S&S ISA product with penalty-free access would be quite useful for building towards that objective.

    You are not going to be able to get more than £4k (plus bonus) of new contributions into a LISA each year anyway, because of the annual limit.

    Yes. The government (via the ISA manager) credits your account. It is up to you to decide what to do with the cash that arrives in your account.

    In the world of pensions, there are some provider's products where you are making monthly direct debit /standing order contributions into the pension and into underlying funds each month, and then when the pension provider claims the tax relief each month, they automatically invest it into the same funds in the same proportions that you had set up on your fixed monthly allocation of contributions. So, some providers might offer something similar to that, when they get their LISAs up and running and settled down.

    However, the admin is easier if they just throw all the claimed government bonus money into a 'cash pot' within your account and then you decide which fund(s) to spend it on. That would certainly be the case in the first year when the first government bonus is not going to be claimed by your provider until after the end of the tax year. The bonus claims will be able to happen in-year during year two onwards, but by that point the customer expectations will probably be that the bonuses will be available to do with as the customer wants, and so most/all managers will probably run the accounts that way.


    Thanks! :beer:

    1. As I still don't know what is what, could I bung the money into the S & S ISA (whether a LISA or not) now and after April 5 and leave it there until I have decided which funds I want to buy and in what proportion?

    2. If I said to you that I can't ever see myself earning a salary which hits the highest tax threshold, would your advice differ?

    Aha : I thought that LISAs had the same annual contribution limit as 'standard' ISAs - I didn't realise there was a £4k limit, so thanks for that. I don't think I would want to draw on it before I am 60. Though I am wondering whether it is worth tying money up like this for the sake of the £2500 extra that I would get from the government for using a LISA instead of a 'standard' S & S ISA.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,296 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    But it's the only thing I have to go on, that and Lars Kroijer's, when I've got through that. If it makes sense I'd rather follow a general recommendation by 'experts' than try to find my own mix.

    A book author does not fit that criteria. A multi-asset solution or a portfolio via an IFA would.

    Multi-asset funds and model portfolios are live allocations. Not cast in stone and not restricted to the level a book author has made up their own allocation. And do note, that the allocations they have are just made up. They would not pass regulatory scrutiny. This does not make them bad. It just makes them basic and restricted and things like that tend to give lower returns. i.e. when the general consensus is that high yield bonds and global bonds are more favourable, your book tells you to use short term gilts. Since the book was last published, sterling has heavily fallen and a number of asset classes/markets are above their long term average. How has your book been updated to reflect those changes?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • badger09
    badger09 Posts: 11,200 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Jon_W wrote: »
    Thanks! :beer:

    1. As I still don't know what is what, could I bung the money into the S & S ISA (whether a LISA or not) now and after April 5 and leave it there until I have decided which funds I want to buy and in what proportion?

    2. If I said to you that I can't ever see myself earning a salary which hits the highest tax threshold, would your advice differ?

    1) Yes you can do that (not LISA as they're not available yet)

    In fact, rather than rush into opening an S&S ISA with a provider which might not suit your style of investing (lump sum/monthly drip feed/funds/ITs etc) and incur possible exit charges, you could simply open any instant access cash ISA now & pay in up to £15240. That assumes you haven't already subscribed to a cash ISA during this tax year.

    That way, you have not wasted this year's ISA allowance but also haven't been rushed into anything. After 6th April you can ask your chosen S&S ISA provider to transfer in your cash ISA balance and pay in next year's allowance.

    2) Its a use it or lose it annual allowance, why waste it? It also saves you having to keep records for HMRC;)
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Post of the Month
    edited 10 March 2017 at 6:41PM
    Jon_W wrote: »
    1. As I still don't know what is what, could I bung the money into the S & S ISA (whether a LISA or not) now and after April 5 and leave it there until I have decided which funds I want to buy and in what proportion?
    Yes, although if you have not made any decisions yet you could also put it in a Cash ISA now and after April 5 and leave it there until you have decided which fund you want to buy and in what proportion and with what S&S ISA provider, and then transfer to the provider you want to use who is good value for money for the fund you want to use. Instant access cash ISAs don't have exit fees and transfers from them to the provider of your choice are quite quick.

    Not every platform offers access to every fund. If you don't know what you want, don't rush, but in the meantime if you want to take advantage of the ISA allowance in 2016/7 you could just keep it in a cash ISA, or as uninvested cash within a S&S ISA.
    2. If I said to you that I can't ever see myself earning a salary which hits the highest tax threshold, would your advice differ?
    Well, I might say that shows a lack of ambition :) given you may be 27,28 years from state pension retirement age - presumably you are not going to be retiring particularly early as you don't have any pension provision of your own to speak of. Almost three decades is a long time to become an important person at work who gets paid enough to trigger high rate tax.

    Still, the comment was really just to agree with your point that it is useful to use S&S ISA rather than LISA because of penalty-free flexibility for whatever life throws at you. It could be an opportunity to get higher rate tax relief. It could be an opportunity to extend or improve or move your house. If it turns out you don't really see yourself using the S&S ISA money before retirement you could always just chuck it in a pension later as you could be doing anyway now. As mentioned you can't put all your money in a LISA anyway because of the annual limit so there isn't really a danger of locking 'everything' away in a LISA.
    Aha : I thought that LISAs had the same annual contribution limit as 'standard' ISAs - I didn't realise there was a £4k limit, so thanks for that. I don't think I would want to draw on it before I am 60. Though I am wondering whether it is worth tying money up like this for the sake of the £2500 extra that I would get from the government for using a LISA instead of a 'standard' S & S ISA.
    You would get £2500 bonus on £10k in a LISA. But once you have opened a LISA (which you can't open yet, because the product will not exist until next tax year), you can keep contributing £4k a year and getting bonuses until you are age 50. As you are not even 40 yet, that's at least a decade, which is at least £40k, which is a lot more than £2.5k bonus.

    If you don't plan to use the money until retirement or semi-retirement age, why wouldn't you want the bonus? 25% is a nice chunk of free money for someone who is behind the curve in terms of making plans for funding their retirement. Alternatively you could just use a traditional pension. No access (even by paying a penalty) but a nice 25% boost from tax relief.
  • Jon_W
    Jon_W Posts: 108 Forumite
    dunstonh wrote: »
    A book author does not fit that criteria. A multi-asset solution or a portfolio via an IFA would.

    Multi-asset funds and model portfolios are live allocations. Not cast in stone and not restricted to the level a book author has made up their own allocation. And do note, that the allocations they have are just made up. They would not pass regulatory scrutiny. This does not make them bad. It just makes them basic and restricted and things like that tend to give lower returns. i.e. when the general consensus is that high yield bonds and global bonds are more favourable, your book tells you to use short term gilts. Since the book was last published, sterling has heavily fallen and a number of asset classes/markets are above their long term average. How has your book been updated to reflect those changes?

    Thanks, dunstonh (again!). Just out of interest why wouldn't they pass professional standards? Because they are 'off the peg' recommendations?

    I think the books were written in 2012 and 2013, in any case, quite some way before the Brexit vote pound plummet.

    So the higher yield bonds are better even if bonds are just the 'shoring up' part of the portfolio? What sort of bonds are you thinking of? BRICs? Poorer performing Eurozone countries (Spain, Italy)?

    Is this site kosher enough to find an IFA? https://advisor.financial-advisor.co.uk/fa-search/?&keyword=%2Bfind%20%2Bifa&matchtype=b&network=g&mkwid=soX97x3dg|pcrid|94677043233|pkw|%2Bfind%20%2Bifa|pmt|b|pdv|c|slid||&gclid=CM3doLHtzNICFVW7GwodPAUPWA
  • Jon_W
    Jon_W Posts: 108 Forumite
    badger09 wrote: »
    1) Yes you can do that (not LISA as they're not available yet)

    In fact, rather than rush into opening an S&S ISA with a provider which might not suit your style of investing (lump sum/monthly drip feed/funds/ITs etc) and incur possible exit charges, you could simply open any instant access cash ISA now & pay in up to £15240. That assumes you haven't already subscribed to a cash ISA during this tax year.

    That way, you have not wasted this year's ISA allowance but also haven't been rushed into anything. After 6th April you can ask your chosen S&S ISA provider to transfer in your cash ISA balance and pay in next year's allowance.

    2) Its a use it or lose it annual allowance, why waste it? It also saves you having to keep records for HMRC;)

    Great, I'll get onto the bank Monday morning to get the cash ISA opened. :beer:

    As for choice of S & S ISA, Hargreaves Lansdown caught my eye, if only for the telephone advice which is available.
  • Jon_W
    Jon_W Posts: 108 Forumite
    bowlhead99 wrote: »
    Yes, although if you have not made any decisions yet you could also put it in a Cash ISA now and after April 5 and leave it there until you have decided which fund you want to buy and in what proportion and with what S&S ISA provider, and then transfer to the provider you want to use who is good value for money for the fund you want to use. Instant access cash ISAs don't have exit fees and transfers from them to the provider of your choice are quite quick.

    Not every platform offers access to every fund. If you don't know what you want, don't rush, but in the meantime if you want to take advantage of the ISA allowance in 2016/7 you could just keep it in a cash ISA, or as uninvested cash within a S&S ISA.

    Well, I might say that shows a lack of ambition :) given you may be 27,28 years from state pension retirement age - presumably you are not going to be retiring particularly early as you don't have any pension provision of your own to speak of. Almost three decades is a long time to become an important person at work who gets paid enough to trigger high rate tax.

    Still, the comment was really just to agree with your point that it is useful to use S&S ISA rather than LISA because of penalty-free flexibility for whatever life throws at you. It could be an opportunity to get higher rate tax relief. It could be an opportunity to extend or improve or move your house. If it turns out you don't really see yourself using the S&S ISA money before retirement you could always just chuck it in a pension later as you could be doing anyway now. As mentioned you can't put all your money in a LISA anyway because of the annual limit so there isn't really a danger of locking 'everything' away in a LISA.

    You would get £2500 bonus on £10k in a LISA. But once you have opened a LISA (which you can't open yet, because the product will not exist until next tax year), you can keep contributing £4k a year and getting bonuses until you are age 50. As you are not even 40 yet, that's at least a decade, which is at least £40k, which is a lot more than £2.5k bonus.

    If you don't plan to use the money until retirement or semi-retirement age, why wouldn't you want the bonus? 25% is a nice chunk of free money for someone who is behind the curve in terms of making plans for funding their retirement. Alternatively you could just use a traditional pension. No access (even by paying a penalty) but a nice 25% boost from tax relief.

    Another great post, thanks. I should have explained better: the £4k government top-up for the LISA comes from me not really wanting to tie more than £10k up in it due to its long-term nature.

    Wouldn't the pension top-up from the Govt just be 20% if I am a basic rate taxpayer, though?
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Post of the Month
    Imagine you are a basic rate taxpayer somewhere in the middle of the basic rate band with £30,000 of earnings.

    You pay a marginal rate of 20% tax on those earnings as you say.

    If you decide to 'give up' £12,500 of those earnings one year and put them in a pension, you will not pay tax now on those £12,500 of earnings. So you will save £2500 tax.

    So the choice is, keep the cash and have [£12,500 less 20% tax] in your hand, which is £10,000 cash in your hand.

    Or put it in the pension and have £12,500 in the pension.

    As you can see, the £12,500 in the pension is 25% greater than the £10,000 you would have had in your hand.

    When you eventually draw the pension at age 58 or whatever the age limit is by the time you get there, you can have a quarter of the pension money as a tax free lump sum and then the rest of the money you take out of it will be 'taxable'. I put the taxable in quotes, because although it is technically taxable income, you will probably have a lot of space within your annual personal allowance over the course of a few years to take that money out of the pension without going over your annual personal allowance and therefore only having a tax rate of 0% on the money.

    So, for someone in your position who has not really lined up any other sources of taxable income in retirement which would have used up your annual personal allowances once you stop work, the choice is basically:

    - put £10,000 into a pension now and have it grossed up to £12,500 with basic rate tax relief. Watch the money grow and then when you need it at age 60ish, draw it out 25% tax free and 75% taxable but probably at 0%. The net result is you get £12500 plus growth, back in your hand, in retirement.

    Or

    - put £10,000 into a LISA and get a 25% bonus on it to £12500. Watch the money grow and then when you need it age 60+, take it out and pay zero tax.

    As you can see, the result is pretty much the same, and using the pension route allows you to get literally your entire salary into tax-relieved investments every year whereas the LISA only allows you to get £4k into bonused investments every year.

    A disadvantage of pension is that there is no access (even with penalty) if you want to access the money at some point before the pension access age (although that access age might be slightly earlier than LISA access age). Whereas the LISA could be accessed at any time in a dire emergency by giving up the bonus and the profits on the bonus and paying a further penalty.

    A further disadvantage is that taking the money out of a pension entirely tax free does require that the three-quarters of it which is taxable is received in years where you have spare annual personal allowance. If you were still working at, say, 62, with no spare personal allowance, but wanted to take out £50k to buy a sportscar, that extra lump of pension income taken that year would push you into higher rate tax; whereas £50k taken out of a LISA age 62 would not involve any tax paid at all.

    Advantages of pension include higher rate tax relief for those who are in higher rate tax bands, and the fact that money stuck in a pension can't be taken off you by your creditors when the bailiffs come round, or if you go bankrupt, or if you are looking to get means-tested welfare benefits at some point - whereas if you had ISA/LISA you would be expected to use that up first before taking meanstested benefits.
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