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Monarch delays & Compensations. Listed flights denied in O.P.
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# 701
carrsy78
Old 24-02-2013, 4:13 PM
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any one else dealing with this filght or can advised if i need to do anything else?

Re: Flight MON1287 Sharm el-Sheikh to Manchester 06th October 2011
Further to your claim for delay compensation, we are writing to advise of our conclusion.

Providing our passengers with a safe and efficient service is our first priority. We would like to reassure you that every reasonable effort is made to ensure that Monarch Airlines flights depart on time and in the unlikely event we are unable to do so through disruption, we aim to provide a solution at the earliest opportunity.

As previously advised, in some circumstances passengers may be entitled to compensation for such disruption under European Union laws. However, any monetary payments are subject to certain criteria being satisfied. Under these laws where the disruption is caused by an ‘extraordinary circumstance’ which the airline was reasonably unable to prevent, the carrier is not obliged to pay compensation. Extraordinary circumstances have been defined by the courts and the European Regulations themselves provide a non-exhaustive list of which circumstances can indeed be categorised as extraordinary.

Our records show that your flight was delayed due to a flight instrument fault, which arose just prior to the departure of the outbound sector. The aircraft, which had been scheduled to operate your flight, was rendered unserviceable and therefore unsafe to fly. In order to rectify the fault a replacement part was required and this was flown by helicopter from Redhill to Manchesterand the fault was rectified.

However upon arrival into Sharm el-Sheikh the crew exceeded their legal duty hours and were required to take a period of minimum rest. As a result passengers on your flight were required to night stop in Sharm el-Sheikh. Your flight operated at the earliest opportunity the following day once the crew had completed the requisite rest period.

Having considered the factual background of this incident, we are satisfied that the disruption in your case was caused by an extraordinary circumstance that could not have reasonably been prevented by Monarch Airlines. We are, therefore, unable to accept your claim for compensation for the reasons given.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if we can provide any further assistance or information.

Yours sincerely,

EU Claims Team
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# 702
The Wingco
Old 24-02-2013, 5:38 PM
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Having been ignored by Monarch since last November , have just filed a complaint to BBC Watchdog. Feel free to join in! Just Google 'BBC Watchdog'.
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# 703
keftin
Old 24-02-2013, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suelees1 View Post
Keftin I'm just wondering whether there is any connection between your delayed return flight from PMI to Man and the delay to our outgoing flight ZB532 from Man to PMI. Our 9am scheduled take off was delayed 5+ hours. What time should you have left PMI?
Our's should have left at 1325 local time but was delayed for over 5 hours. So there does seem to be a link. I will be requesting details of the time/date etc when the fault was first detected before deciding what to do next.
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# 704
Vauban
Old 24-02-2013, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingco View Post
Having been ignored by Monarch since last November , have just filed a complaint to BBC Watchdog. Feel free to join in! Just Google 'BBC Watchdog'.
Fine. But I don't think that you should expect it to make any difference to Monarch's attitude. Nor will writing to the CAA for that matter. If you want what you are legally entitled to, there is only one thing you can do. Court. And if you are not prepared to do that, then chalk up the experience to bad luck and move on.

I'm taking Monarch to Court BTW: it isn't difficult and the risks are few. But if that scares you, use a claims company. They'll ate a third of what you're owed, but for those who feel out of their depth, it may not be a bad option.

One further thought whilst I'm being a bit curmudgeonly: don't think that by sitting back and watching other's successfully sue you will help your own claim. I understand there are no precedents in the small claims court: so if I win in similar circumstances to your own case, then there's still no guarantee you will. That said, Monarch's attempts to claim ECs seem so at variance with European law, I can't see them winning many.
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# 705
suelees1
Old 24-02-2013, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keftin View Post
Our's should have left at 1325 local time but was delayed for over 5 hours. So there does seem to be a link. I will be requesting details of the time/date etc when the fault was first detected before deciding what to do next.
As will I once I've had the claim refusal in writing. I'll ask for a technical report in addition to other details. I'm only aware Monarch is refusing the claims and blaming e.c.'s because I've seen it on here. Apparently they're saying wing damage on a Sharm el Sheik flight caused the knock on delay with the Man to PMI flight.

https://www.facebook.com/MonarchComplaints has said when it's complaints website gets up and running "...members can subscribe to news on particular flights and also be able to contact fellow travellers to maybe compile class action lawsuits"

I'd be very grateful if you'd keep me informed.
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# 706
blondmark
Old 24-02-2013, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingco View Post
Having been ignored by Monarch since last November , have just filed a complaint to BBC Watchdog. Feel free to join in! Just Google 'BBC Watchdog'.
Well that's not quite how you get paid. What you need to do is to write to Monarch giving them 14 days to agree your compensation and then sue them in your local county court.
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# 707
bluep
Old 24-02-2013, 8:06 PM
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I've read the thread and the FAQs and have a couple of questions if anyone can answer them:
1) Is everyone claiming via Monarch's form with the draft letter covering it? Or just sending in the letter? If just the letter, have Monarch come back and insisted on the form?

2) Monarch's form asks for arrival time of my flight - I cannot find this anywhere but do not remember us making up lost time on the way (we were just more than 3 hours delayed) - if I contact Monarch prior to putting in the claim, are they obliged to give me this information or would they?

3) Monarch's claim form states that if flights are delayed by more than 3 hours but less than 4, they will only pay 50% of the compensation - I have not seen this referred to anywhere else. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance for any assistance
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# 708
blondmark
Old 24-02-2013, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzielie View Post
Been following this thread with interest, as I was also on the above flight. As I live in Spain, it would be difficult to take monarch to court if the declined a claim. Is all lost, or would anyone here know if I submitted a claim to them, and with a refusal, what to do?

Thank you in advance
You can practically guarantee a refusal. However all is far from lost, in fact it's even easier for you because you don't live in England!

You need to complete Form A - European Small Claims Procedure (in English) and process it through your local Spanish small claims court to be served on Monarch in England. It's easier because it's all documents based and nobody needs to attend a hearing.

Monarch have a month to respond, which of course they will do pleading 'extraordinary circumstances'. Then you respond with why that's not true and shoot them down in flames. An English county court decides from the paperwork, hopefully enters judgment in your favour and Monarch sends you all the dosh plus court fees ... ... or it's bailiffs.

Couldn't be simpler!
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# 709
4poc
Old 24-02-2013, 9:21 PM
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I intend to post NBA tomorrow after refusal of claim for tech prob with third flight prior to ours, but just wondered if anyone that has sent NBA has received a reply?
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# 710
lisafoster
Old 24-02-2013, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 4poc View Post
I intend to post NBA tomorrow after refusal of claim for tech prob with third flight prior to ours, but just wondered if anyone that has sent NBA has received a reply?
I sent my NBA on 6th Feb and have had no response (apart from Doreen Slack emailing me back to say that she had forwarded it to EU claims as I copied her in on the email). The only communication I have had from EU claims since I sent the NBA was their letter refusing compensation
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# 711
Vauban
Old 24-02-2013, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lisafoster View Post
I sent my NBA on 6th Feb and have had no response (apart from Doreen Slack emailing me back to say that she had forwarded it to EU claims as I copied her in on the email). The only communication I have had from EU claims since I sent the NBA was their letter refusing compensation
As far as I am aware, Monarch have not responded to a NBA on its own. You need to follow through with Court action, after your 14 day deadline. Only when I instigated legal action did Monarch actually respond.
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# 712
cart583
Old 25-02-2013, 8:55 AM
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hi, can i send a nba by email or does it have to be by post? i already know the response of our claim even tho i havent heard from monarch yet as another poster from the same flight has been quoted ec! thanks
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# 713
Mark2spark
Old 25-02-2013, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cart583 View Post
hi, can i send a nba by email or does it have to be by post? i already know the response of our claim even tho i havent heard from monarch yet as another poster from the same flight has been quoted ec! thanks
Either. Or both. Whatever suits you really. It's just a paper writing exercise now if you already know the reason they are going to give. If you haven't had a reply yet, and more than 14 days have passed since you sent your claim in, it's quite reasonable for you to commence court action NOW without further ado.
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# 714
Mark2spark
Old 25-02-2013, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrsy78 View Post
any one else dealing with this filght or can advised if i need to do anything else?

Re: Flight MON1287 Sharm el-Sheikh to Manchester 06th October 2011
Further to your claim for delay compensation, we are writing to advise of our conclusion.



Our records show that your flight was delayed due to a flight instrument fault, which arose just prior to the departure of the outbound sector. The aircraft, which had been scheduled to operate your flight, was rendered unserviceable and therefore unsafe to fly. In order to rectify the fault a replacement part was required and this was flown by helicopter from Redhill to Manchesterand the fault was rectified.

However upon arrival into Sharm el-Sheikh the crew exceeded their legal duty hours and were required to take a period of minimum rest. As a result passengers on your flight were required to night stop in Sharm el-Sheikh. Your flight operated at the earliest opportunity the following day once the crew had completed the requisite rest period.

Having considered the factual background of this incident, we are satisfied that the disruption in your case was caused by an extraordinary circumstance that could not have reasonably been prevented by Monarch Airlines. We are, therefore, unable to accept your claim for compensation for the reasons given.
Time for court. Knock on EC that isn't an EC anyway.
The plane they sent for your flight arrived late, and the crew were out of hours.
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# 715
cart583
Old 25-02-2013, 9:24 AM
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thanks mark, i was actually thinking of using flightmole as i dont really feel confident enough to do it myself.
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# 716
PIP1966
Old 25-02-2013, 9:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark2spark View Post
Have you managed it Pip?

Claim form available here as well:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fimcgnqenn...%20%281%29.pdf
Good morning - Thank you for your help and I now have the form printed out. Please can I ask for some more help?

On the form it asks for the circumstances and duration of the delay. All I know is that it was a technical fault and a part had to be put in a taxi from Luton to Manchester to repair the outbound flight to Corfu. Is there a proper way to word this as I feel they will say this was "Extraordinary Circumstances".

Would appreciate any help you can give me

PIP
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# 717
111KAB
Old 25-02-2013, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cart583 View Post
thanks mark, i was actually thinking of using flightmole as i dont really feel confident enough to do it myself.
Flightmole seem one of the best however don't forget you have up to 6 years to make your claim - it may be worth you waiting to see how other claims go particularly if you can find someone who was on your flight. The 6 year backdate allows interest at 8% - not many (MSE) places you can get that return!
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# 718
Mark2spark
Old 25-02-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PIP1966 View Post
Good morning - Thank you for your help and I now have the form printed out. Please can I ask for some more help?

On the form it asks for the circumstances and duration of the delay. All I know is that it was a technical fault and a part had to be put in a taxi from Luton to Manchester to repair the outbound flight to Corfu. Is there a proper way to word this as I feel they will say this was "Extraordinary Circumstances".

Would appreciate any help you can give me

PIP
Hi Pip,
In the circumstances box I would put:
The captain advised that there was a technical fault in the previous flight. The ECJ ruled in the judgement of Wallentin-Hermann that: "...must be interpreted as meaning that a technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation (or delay) of a flight is not covered by the concept of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ within the meaning of that provision, unless that problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control", and also that in the Finnair v Oyj v Timy Lassooy Case C-22/11, "... it is apparent from recital 15 in the preamble to Regulation No 261/2004 that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may relate only to ‘a particular aircraft on a particular day’, which cannot apply to a passenger denied boarding because of the rescheduling of flights as a result of extraordinary circumstances affecting an earlier flight", therefore compensation of €400 pp is due for the delay in excess of three hours.

You might have to attach that on another sheet.
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# 719
PIP1966
Old 25-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2spark View Post
Hi Pip,
In the circumstances box I would put:
The captain advised that there was a technical fault in the previous flight. The ECJ ruled in the judgement of Wallentin-Hermann that: "...must be interpreted as meaning that a technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation (or delay) of a flight is not covered by the concept of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ within the meaning of that provision, unless that problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control", and also that in the Finnair v Oyj v Timy Lassooy Case C-22/11, "... it is apparent from recital 15 in the preamble to Regulation No 261/2004 that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may relate only to ‘a particular aircraft on a particular day’, which cannot apply to a passenger denied boarding because of the rescheduling of flights as a result of extraordinary circumstances affecting an earlier flight", therefore compensation of €400 pp is due for the delay in excess of three hours.

You might have to attach that on another sheet.

Hi Mark - you are amazing, thank you so much
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# 720
ddavies43
Old 25-02-2013, 12:32 PM
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[B]ZB 1377 Venice - Manchester 14/6/2012, claim denied - ec "Venice to Gatwick flight developed an aircraft monitoring fault and was consequently declared unsafe to fly. In order to minimise the disruption caused, the passengers on this flight were transferred to your flight which then operated from Venice via Gatwick before continuing on to Manchester."[B]

There are some unusual aspects to our claim which involves the combining of 2 flights and which may be of general interest.

On arrival at check-in at Marco Polo some 2+ hrs. before the Manchester flight (which was 3+hrs before the Gatwick flight) we were handed a letter on Monarch headed notepaper which had clearly been prepared in advance and said....

"re-ZB1377Venice-Manchester
Regrettably the aircraft due to operate YOUR flight today has experienced technical problems. In a bid to minimise the disruption our operations department has combined your flight with our Venice - Gatwick. Therefore your flight will route through Gatwick before continuing on to Manchester. You will be required to disembark at Gatwick and proceed through security before re boarding."

It is self evident that that Monarch will have known at least a week in advance that they had 2 less than half full flights from Venice to the UK and, it seems to me, probable that there might be a commercial advantage on combining the two flights ???
I believe that this poses a question about Monarch's integrity and, particularly in this case, I shall be requiring that they provide fully documented audit trails showing evidence for both aircraft involved in relation to the the claimed fault (which differs from one - given in writing - when I first complained)

Would appreciate any observations.
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