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  • FIRST POST
    MSE Andrea
    Ask Atos Healthcare disability assessment questions
    • #1
    • 10th Jan 13, 9:41 AM
    Ask Atos Healthcare disability assessment questions 10th Jan 13 at 9:41 AM
    Atos Healthcare assesses disability on behalf of the government. This highly controversial issue has been discussed many times on these forums and in the press.

    This is a trial thread to allow Atos to provide guidance about the process. We have agreed, but it can only post specifically within this thread.

    Subjects it can answer questions on include:

    • Clarifications about the Work Capability Assessment questionnaire
    • Appointments/Assessments
    • Travel and travel expenses to the assessment
    • Home visits
    • Health Care Professionals and their qualifications (but not specific individuals)

    It won't be able to answer questions on:

    • The policy for decisions itself (DWP is responsible for this, not Atos)
    • The appeals process
    • The DWP staff who made the decision
    • Questions that would need your personal details
    • It can obviously only answer questions on the parts of the ESA Work Capability Assessment it carries out.

    Why we’re allowing this:

    As the issue is controversial and often causes anger amongst some affected, we think it even more important to facilitate the ability for people to contact Atos directly and get answers in a public space. Many people have demanded answers on this forum – this should help them get them – we will be monitoring the trial to see if it does.

    Of course this is not an endorsement of the firm or government policy by MSE or Martin.

    Before we allowed this to happen we asked and received assurances that during this (initial trial) period they would provide sufficient resources to answer people’s questions.

    Please don’t debate the firm or policy in this thread

    We have the forum Discussion Time board which allows discussion of that. This thread is a question and answer thread.

    To ask a question

    Just click reply below to ask your question and the Atos representative will aim to answer your question within 2 working days (ie Mon-Fri). More complicated questions could take longer so keeping posts simple, with one question per post, should help get a quicker response.

    You’ll recognise the Atos Healthcare representative as the username will be displayed in bold purple and have a special representative signature.

    As always, abusive posts will be removed – please report any inappropriate posts to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com and don’t feed the trolls.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 10-01-2013 at 4:02 PM.

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Page 65
  • sicknotethefirst
    Originally Posted by sicknotethefirst
    The approved health care professionals' (HCPs) role is to carry out an assessment of the functional effects of the customer's disabling condition, and to utilise the information gathered to provide the decision maker with an impartial and independent assessment.
    What specific disability analysis training do doctors, nurses and physiotherapists receive over and above their general medical training?

    Before working for Atos Healthcare, healthcare professionals must have at least 3 years’ post-registration experience across a wide range of specialities, and this must include some generalist training. All employees are provided with additional, comprehensive training specific to disability analysis. For the Work Capability Assessment, this includes an 8 day course for all doctors and a 17 day course for nurses and physiotherapists.
    Training of healthcare professionals can be considered in three distinct areas:
    1. Generic training
    2. Training to undertake benefit-specific assessments
    3. Scrutiny and file work training
    Now I have a question…


    Mr X has had a quadruple bypass leaving him with left ventricular failure to those who don’t know (heart failure) and later develops type 2 diabetes which then complicates matters even more.

    Mr Y who has had a single bypass with no other complications.


    Mr Z who was born with Spina bifida (Almost all patients with Spina Bifida will require lifelong antibiotics to prevent infection. Approximately 70% of all spina bifida patients will have to have some form of drug therapy later in life to try to control their bladder over-activity, and approximately 70% will have to practice clean intermittent catheterisation on a lifelong basis)


    Mr XX Who through an accident at work lost the use of the right side of his body.


    Now all these people send in their filled out ESA50 which is then scrutinised by a basic nurse with no additional qualifications except a 17 day disability analysis course provided by Atos.
    How is it that a basic nurse is able to learn so much about a person’s ability when they have only had an additional 17 days training? Bearing in mind the different complications that all illnesses may carry, and then make a recommendation about what they believe?



    I would like a specific answer and not something copied from the Atos website.
    Originally Posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    Hi sicknotethefirst All the HCPs who perform scrutiny for ESA are approved Disability Analysts who have received additional specific training and approval from DWP in the scrutiny/filework processes. It is worth mentioning that while all HCPs will meet the minimum requirements as described above, many have considerably more experience and additional qualifications. The role of the Atos HCP, whether at filework or face-to-face assessment, is to look at the functional effects of an individual’s medical conditions. They do this by reviewing the information in the individual’s ESA50 form, along with any other information that may be present (or which they request from the individual’s GP, for example). They will then advise if there is a need for a face-to-face assessment, or in other cases – where there is sufficient evidence and in accordance with DWP procedures – offer advice to the Decision Maker at the filework stage.
    If I understand you correctly what your saying is that all HCP's have enough qualifications to understand all illnesses and the their effects? regardless to how complicated this maybe? In your words you stated" many have considerably more experience and additional qualifications." I take it that this doesn't mean 'ALL'

    You also stated...

    Are you saying that if they do not have enough information they 'WILL' seek more information from the claimants GP?
    Originally posted by sicknotethefirst

    You seem to have missed the above ????

    Hi sicknotethefirst

    Could you clarify your question please? Work capability assessments have been happening across Britain since ESA was introduced. If you are referring to assessment for ESA from IB these are also happening across Britain, but you would need to speak to DWP about their referral process and when you would be referred to us.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative

    Thank you I will contact the Dwp.
    Last edited by sicknotethefirst; 22-02-2013 at 1:27 PM.
  • vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
    Hi vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

    HCPs will have a base location where they mostly work, but they will also work elsewhere.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    In that case,if you have another assessment in the future at the same assessment centre,is it possible that you could get the same HCP you had in the past?
    Originally posted by vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
    Hi vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

    Yes, it is possible that the same HCP as before would do the assessment.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    Dear atos rep

    REMINDER.........REMINDER.......REMINDER


    And if the HCP in question was an HCP that i had made a formal complaint about to ATOS and/or to their regulatory body (i.e. the GMC or NMC).Would/could it then still be possible to get the same HCP as before to do the assessment.That is wether or not the complaint is still proceeding or not.
    Last edited by vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv; 22-02-2013 at 2:45 PM.
  • Atos Healthcare representative
    Atos Rep, can I once again ask you to answer my question which was originally posted at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=148 then at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=372, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=634, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=794 and finally at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...postcount=1072.

    Just to remind you, the question I asked was why the person completing the ESA85 does not have to complete the justification section with any meaningful or evidenced observation?

    I know of people who have had this section completely missed out and in my case the form is below (with personal details redacted):

    Despite suffering from complex mental health problems for more than 4 years (at the time of the assessment) the HCP states that he feels that I will be able to return to work within 3 months and his ONLY justification for this is that (in his opinion) my "level of disability would be expected to improve". I should point out that nearly 9 months on from the WCA my GP, CPN and Consultant Psychiatrist feel that I an still not well enough to return to work and in fact my condition has deteriorated due to the stress of the appeals process.

    Surely this advice is not "justified with reference to the evidence gathered". And would fail any "Regular random quality audit review" and does not provide any "consistency between the evidence present and the advice offered".

    I appreciate that you cannot discuss individual cases but can you please explain how an HCP (who was a Doctor) can get away with such a brief justification without providing evidence to back up his prognosis?
    Originally posted by damo24
    Hi damo24

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you. Advice given in the ESA85 should be justified, but other parts of the report may form the justification. The page you have copied needs to be viewed in the context of being one page of many. Any advice given would be based on the evidence that has been considered and justified throughout the report, summarised in the Personal Summary Statement.

    I can’t discuss specific examples on here because there are too many possible factors of the assessment that would need to be reviewed/discussed, but if you do not think that the report has been completed as it should have been please contact us directly.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Atos Healthcare. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • damo24
    Hi damo24

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you. Advice given in the ESA85 should be justified, but other parts of the report may form the justification. The page you have copied needs to be viewed in the context of being one page of many. Any advice given would be based on the evidence that has been considered and justified throughout the report, summarised in the Personal Summary Statement.

    I can’t discuss specific examples on here because there are too many possible factors of the assessment that would need to be reviewed/discussed, but if you do not think that the report has been completed as it should have been please contact us directly.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    Thank you for getting back to me. I appreciate that you cannot comment on individual cases however I can confirm that there are there is no further justification anywhere else in the report. As I have a tribunal approaching I will leave things as they stand until after that however once that has concluded I will certainly contact you directly with regards to this and the other matters previously discussed.

    Thanks again.
  • sicknotethefirst
    Originally Posted by sicknotethefirst
    The approved health care professionals' (HCPs) role is to carry out an assessment of the functional effects of the customer's disabling condition, and to utilise the information gathered to provide the decision maker with an impartial and independent assessment.
    What specific disability analysis training do doctors, nurses and physiotherapists receive over and above their general medical training?

    Before working for Atos Healthcare, healthcare professionals must have at least 3 years’ post-registration experience across a wide range of specialities, and this must include some generalist training. All employees are provided with additional, comprehensive training specific to disability analysis. For the Work Capability Assessment, this includes an 8 day course for all doctors and a 17 day course for nurses and physiotherapists.
    Training of healthcare professionals can be considered in three distinct areas:
    1. Generic training
    2. Training to undertake benefit-specific assessments
    3. Scrutiny and file work training
    Now I have a question…


    Mr X has had a quadruple bypass leaving him with left ventricular failure to those who don’t know (heart failure) and later develops type 2 diabetes which then complicates matters even more.

    Mr Y who has had a single bypass with no other complications.


    Mr Z who was born with Spina bifida (Almost all patients with Spina Bifida will require lifelong antibiotics to prevent infection. Approximately 70% of all spina bifida patients will have to have some form of drug therapy later in life to try to control their bladder over-activity, and approximately 70% will have to practice clean intermittent catheterisation on a lifelong basis)


    Mr XX Who through an accident at work lost the use of the right side of his body.


    Now all these people send in their filled out ESA50 which is then scrutinised by a basic nurse with no additional qualifications except a 17 day disability analysis course provided by Atos.
    How is it that a basic nurse is able to learn so much about a person’s ability when they have only had an additional 17 days training? Bearing in mind the different complications that all illnesses may carry, and then make a recommendation about what they believe?



    I would like a specific answer and not something copied from the Atos website.
    Originally Posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    Hi sicknotethefirst All the HCPs who perform scrutiny for ESA are approved Disability Analysts who have received additional specific training and approval from DWP in the scrutiny/filework processes. It is worth mentioning that while all HCPs will meet the minimum requirements as described above, many have considerably more experience and additional qualifications. The role of the Atos HCP, whether at filework or face-to-face assessment, is to look at the functional effects of an individual’s medical conditions. They do this by reviewing the information in the individual’s ESA50 form, along with any other information that may be present (or which they request from the individual’s GP, for example). They will then advise if there is a need for a face-to-face assessment, or in other cases – where there is sufficient evidence and in accordance with DWP procedures – offer advice to the Decision Maker at the filework stage.
    If I understand you correctly what your saying is that all HCP's have enough qualifications to understand all illnesses and the their effects? regardless to how complicated this maybe? In your words you stated" many have considerably more experience and additional qualifications." I take it that this doesn't mean 'ALL'


    Are you saying that if they do not have enough information they 'WILL' seek more information from the claimants GP?
    Originally posted by sicknotethefirst

    You seem to have missed the above ????

    Hi sicknotethefirst

    Could you clarify your question please? Work capability assessments have been happening across Britain since ESA was introduced. If you are referring to assessment for ESA from IB these are also happening across Britain, but you would need to speak to DWP about their referral process and when you would be referred to us.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative

    Thank you I will contact the Dwp.
  • halight
    [QUOTELabour MP brands Atos 36 per cent profit increase as 'slap in the face' to Britain's sick and disabled][/QUOTE]

    [QUOTELABOUR'S Tom Greatrex says the Tory government should be demanding money back from Atos because of the mess they have made of the work assessment tests.][/QUOTE]

    FIT-TO-WORK testers Atos are making record profits while running shambolic medical assessments of disabled people on benefits.
    [QUOTEIn their annual report, the company bragged that one of their “main wins above 100million euros in 2012” was a contract with the UK’s Department for Work and Pensions.][/QUOTE]

    But Atos’s assessments have been widely discredited and almost 40 per cent of claimants have had decisions overturned on appeal.

    The cost of running the appeals system is borne by the Government, not Atos.
    It is unfair that, as successful appeals increase, the company’s profits go through the roof.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...y-over-1724041
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • Muttleythefrog
    Hi damo24

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you. Advice given in the ESA85 should be justified, but other parts of the report may form the justification. The page you have copied needs to be viewed in the context of being one page of many.
    Originally posted by Atos Healthcare company representative
    I have to be honest with you... I've had a face to face medical and two reassessments. All concluded the exceptional circumstances criteria 'would pose substantial risk dah dah dah...'

    The justification for this didn't really exist in any of the cases even though direct reference was often made to specific items (inthe ESA85As) allegedly supporting the opinion.

    It strikes me that actually HCPs seem to often conclude what is most efficiently convenient. Justifications can be nothing more than pointing at a document or fact that may even run absolutely contrary to the opinion. And in the ESA85 context is nothing more than a greying of the facts... I don't know how you reach an opinion someone poses a risk to others from things like 'they did not suffer trembling'...'they have poor rapport'.. and false facts like 'they have many friends' and 'they have no problems shopping'.

    What I did in my reassessments.. and seemingly with great success this time as prognosis now 3 years.. the max... is I simply used the baseless ATOS opinions as the basis for my opinion... in other words I get the max award of this benefit based on nothing more than a paper castle of evidence that nobody has the time nor inclination to explore the truth of. My opinion is based on ATOS opinion (first reassesment) which is based on ATOS opinion (first assessment -full medical) which is based on goodness knows what...lol... rumour.. innuendo.. superstition? All I can do is continue to agree with the madness in the hope they continue to believe I'm mad... what a strange game... maybe it could be sponsored and aired on TV. Guess what'll happen next time.. I'll use ATOS opinion x3 to recommend I still am a madman posing a risk to the public... and I'll attach reports that nobody will really bother reading (except perhaps for the salacious bits about sexual fantasies!) to further encourage a simple reponse of no foundation.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 25-02-2013 at 4:56 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
  • Muttleythefrog
    Hi everyone

    Just a reminder, please, not to post names and personal details on the forum.

    The aim of the thread, for us, is to try to get some of our forum users' questions answered, in the same way as we did with the CAB Board pilot. If it's helping even just one person, which it seems to be at the moment, we feel it's worth it for the time being.
    Originally posted by MSE Andrea
    I disagree Andrea... if this thread helps one person you should also consider how many it damages or puts off others helping... it also will add to the problems many face.. something that may well be invisible to staff here. I was helping people day in day out as example on this site but really just lost my mojo when I felt I would spend my time here trying to deal with a PR agent who did not share my desire to help people here many of whom are vulnerable. I'm only popping on out of immense sense of guilt feeling I'm letting people down.. I cringe when I see that more private requests for assistance have gone unanswered by me due to absence. But let's not beat about the bush.. it is a PR agent... hence the PR responses rather than helpful responses. This is about ATOS HC trying to improve its public persona... not about helping customers. Difficult questions are evaded... ATOS HC can't possibly fail to follow procedure etc... attempts to get people off the thread with their issues if they're politically difficult... contact out CR department and discuss matters. My own questions took over a year to see a response... a full reply of any use to me is something I long since gave up on. In my case of course too... the agent wanted me to take my specific and relevant but non personalised questions into a private arena with ATOS HC CR (to discuss my case problems with them) which would have been of no value to me... or any other customer reading here. Surely the warning bells should have been sounding like mad when the agent here said ATOS HC played no role in the decision making process regarding ESA... something that a vulnerable customer (many whom suffer cognitive failings) could interpret to mean their benefits would not be affected by any of their dealings with ATOS HC... something that had to be leaped on before it could do any damage to readers here. I come here to help claimants... not combat PR trickery and undo the damage that causes.

    I despair that MSE in admin any way feel this thread has been overall benefit to so-called ATOS customers. You must have one heck of a different evaluation to I. I can only hope in time you'll get sufficient data to change that view and do the right thing... and let disabled and sick people get on with the difficulty of day to day life and needing advice about benefits from people who actually may desire to invest some effort in their wellbeing rather than dismissal.

    Sorry for my strong views... but I do feel they are exceptionally well founded. And as someone who has had at every assessment with ATOS their recommendation that I meet Support group criteria I can also add my views do not come from any underlying history of failing the WCA... I passed all 3 times.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 24-02-2013 at 5:43 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
  • halight
    I disagree Andrea... if this thread helps one person you should also consider how many it damages or puts off others helping... it also will add to the problems many face.. something that may well be invisible to staff here. I was helping people day in day out as example on this site but really just lost my mojo when I felt I would spend my time here trying to deal with a PR agent who did not share my desire to help people here many of whom are vulnerable. I'm only popping on out of immense sense of guilt feeling I'm letting people down.. I cringe when I see that more private requests for assistance have gone unanswered by me due to absence. But let's not beat about the bush.. it is a PR agent... hence the PR responses rather than helpful responses. This is about ATOS HC trying to improve its public persona... not about helping customers. Difficult questions are evaded... ATOS HC can't possibly fail to follow procedure etc... attempts to get people off the thread with their issues if they're politically difficult... contact out CR department and discuss matters. My own questions took over a year to see a response... a full reply of any use to me is something I long since gave up on. In my case of course too... the agent wanted me to take my specific and relevant but non personalised questions into a private arena with ATOS HC CR (to discuss my case problems with them) which would have been of no value to me... or any other customer reading here. Surely the warning bells should have been sounding like mad when the agent here said ATOS HC played no role in the decision making process regarding ESA... something that a vulnerable customer (many whom suffer cognitive failings) could interpret to mean their benefits would not be affected by any of their dealings with ATOS HC... something that had to be leaped on before it could do any damage to readers here. I come here to help claimants... not combat PR trickery and undo the damage that causes.

    I despair that MSE in admin any way feel this thread has been overall benefit to so-called ATOS customers. You must have one heck of a different evaluation to I. I can only hope in time you'll get sufficient data to change that view and do the right thing... and let disabled and sick people get on with the difficulty of day to day life and needing advice about benefits from people who actually may desire to invest some effort in their wellbeing rather than dismissal.

    Sorry for my strong views... but I do feel they are exceptionally well founded. And as someone who has had at every assessment with ATOS their recommendation that I meet Support group criteria I can also add my views do not come from any underlying history of failing the WCA... I passed all 3 times.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Very well said mate
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • speedfreek1000
    Yes but look at the image of MSE users ATOS can now claim on their website

    http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/...e-communities/

  • halight
    Yes but look at the image of MSE users ATOS can now claim on their website

    http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/...e-communities/

    Originally posted by speedfreek1000
    I said in one of my early posts that Atos would use this as a PR Job, So they can turn around and say that they "Engage" With there "Customers"

    MSE are just as bad. Giving them a platform to speak on.
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • halight
    Rise in Atos rulings overturned by appeals

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/379...ned-by-appeals

    Appeals against the decisions are costing the taxpayer Ł50million a year.
    Gillian Guy, chief executive of Citizens Advice, said failure to get medical assessments right the first time was undermining the Government’s welfare reform programme.

    She said: “Disabled people and taxpayers are still paying far too high a price for mistakes made in benefit assessments of who is fit for work.”

    Must be all that Training that the Atos PR reap has told us about
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • FTW
    Rise in Atos rulings overturned by appeals

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/379...ned-by-appeals






    Must be all that Training that the Atos PR reap has told us about
    Originally posted by halight
    Severely penalising Atoss for overturned decisions is the first decision that should be implemented, and if they argue against it on contractual grounds, then the DWP contract in its entirety should be made public.
  • sicknotethefirst
    I found this which is very interesting and shows a possible connection between this forum and Atos?

    WHOIS information for moneysavingexpert.com:

    [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
    [whois.verisign-grs.com]
    Whois Server Version 2.0
    Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
    with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
    for detailed information.
    Domain Name: MONEYSAVINGEXPERT.COM
    Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE
    Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com
    Referral URL: http://www.melbourneit.com



    Registry Details: Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE Status: clientTransferProhibited Created On: 2011-01-21 Expires On: 2013-06-07 Updated On: 2012-05-03 Name Server: ns1.ext.origin-it.com Name Server: ns2.ext.origin-it.com


    Raw Whois:
    Domain Name.......... origin-it.com Creation Date........ 1996-06-07 Registration Date.... 2011-01-21 Expiry Date.......... 2013-06-07 Organisation Name.... Atos Origin NSS global factory Organisation Address. Kraszewskiego 1 Organisation Address. Organisation Address. Organisation Address. Bydgoszcz Organisation Address. 85-240 Organisation Address. Bydgoszcz Organisation Address. POLAND Admin Name........... Atos Origin NSS global factory Admin Address........ Kraszewskiego 1 Admin Address........ Admin Address........ Admin Address. Bydgoszcz Admin Address........ 0000 Admin Address........ Bydgoszcz Admin Address........ POLAND Admin Email.......... ipam@atosorigin.com Admin Phone.......... +48.000000000 Admin Fax............
  • sicknotethefirst
    An interesting recording here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG9a2...layer_embedded
  • Olive Oyl
    I disagree Andrea... if this thread helps one person you should also consider how many it damages or puts off others helping... it also will add to the problems many face.. something that may well be invisible to staff here. I was helping people day in day out as example on this site but really just lost my mojo when I felt I would spend my time here trying to deal with a PR agent who did not share my desire to help people here many of whom are vulnerable. I'm only popping on out of immense sense of guilt feeling I'm letting people down.. I cringe when I see that more private requests for assistance have gone unanswered by me due to absence. But let's not beat about the bush.. it is a PR agent... hence the PR responses rather than helpful responses. This is about ATOS HC trying to improve its public persona... not about helping customers. Difficult questions are evaded... ATOS HC can't possibly fail to follow procedure etc... attempts to get people off the thread with their issues if they're politically difficult... contact out CR department and discuss matters. My own questions took over a year to see a response... a full reply of any use to me is something I long since gave up on. In my case of course too... the agent wanted me to take my specific and relevant but non personalised questions into a private arena with ATOS HC CR (to discuss my case problems with them) which would have been of no value to me... or any other customer reading here. Surely the warning bells should have been sounding like mad when the agent here said ATOS HC played no role in the decision making process regarding ESA... something that a vulnerable customer (many whom suffer cognitive failings) could interpret to mean their benefits would not be affected by any of their dealings with ATOS HC... something that had to be leaped on before it could do any damage to readers here. I come here to help claimants... not combat PR trickery and undo the damage that causes.

    I despair that MSE in admin any way feel this thread has been overall benefit to so-called ATOS customers. You must have one heck of a different evaluation to I. I can only hope in time you'll get sufficient data to change that view and do the right thing... and let disabled and sick people get on with the difficulty of day to day life and needing advice about benefits from people who actually may desire to invest some effort in their wellbeing rather than dismissal.

    Sorry for my strong views... but I do feel they are exceptionally well founded. And as someone who has had at every assessment with ATOS their recommendation that I meet Support group criteria I can also add my views do not come from any underlying history of failing the WCA... I passed all 3 times.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Just in case you missed it Andrea
  • halight
    Severely penalising Atoss for overturned decisions is the first decision that should be implemented, and if they argue against it on contractual grounds, then the DWP contract in its entirety should be made public.
    Originally posted by FTW
    Other company's in other walks of life get penalized if they make mistake's
    Why not Atos ?

    Do they have Governments in there pockets, MP's, MEP;s other members of other country's Parliaments?
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • halight
    Originally posted by sicknotethefirst
    Well worth taking the time to listen to this.
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
  • mazza111
    In all honesty, I too believe this is nothing but an ATOS PR farce.

    If the benefit board was better moderated to remove the posts from benefit bashers then people would get better/more advice there. As it stands at the moment, people are scared to post there because of all the bashing that goes on. People are posting on behalf of, so they aren't getting the stick. I can see that just from the amount of Pms I receive. It's the rules of the Benefit Board, but they just don't seem to be enforced You just have to look at the thread from a woman, posting on behalf of her friend who had MS. It turned into 12 pages of policy discussion and a slagging match. When the OP's question was answered within a couple of posts

    And it's a shame really, because MSE used to be such a great place to get benefit advice. I will continue to help people as much as I can, but please please please put a stop to this culture of benefit bashing. It's the same people doing it over and over again.
    4 Stones and 0 pounds or 25.4kg lighter
  • halight
    In all honesty, I too believe this is nothing but an ATOS PR farce.

    If the benefit board was better moderated to remove the posts from benefit bashers then people would get better/more advice there. As it stands at the moment, people are scared to post there because of all the bashing that goes on. People are posting on behalf of, so they aren't getting the stick. I can see that just from the amount of Pms I receive. It's the rules of the Benefit Board, but they just don't seem to be enforced You just have to look at the thread from a woman, posting on behalf of her friend who had MS. It turned into 12 pages of policy discussion and a slagging match. When the OP's question was answered within a couple of posts

    And it's a shame really, because MSE used to be such a great place to get benefit advice. I will continue to help people as much as I can, but please please please put a stop to this culture of benefit bashing. It's the same people doing it over and over again.
    Originally posted by mazza111
    It seem to me that this whole site has gone very anti Benefits, To the point were people who are very sick are given the label of thief, They are all trying it on. That'a all you hear all over this web site now. And its allowed by the Mods and the site owners.
    But if you say anything ageist Gay people or people of other beliefs, they clamp down on you like a tun of bricks.

    Lets just face it. we now live in a country were people don't care. they don't wont to know, As long as they are ok then all is right with the world.

    We now live in a county were if you are sick. You have very few rights. what help you do get will be the minimum that you can get away with.

    Sick people are now of use for big company's to make a profit .
    They have no other use,

    how long before we start locking them out of sight again? Think this wont happen ? Well we lock many of our old folk away. out of site.

    this site has just turned into a site were you can come and have a moan about the person with cancer over the road that has just gone on a holiday to help with there recovery

    The Mods don't care. as long as the site hits its target number of "hits" each month.
    You can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.
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