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UKPC Ticket Belfast HELP PLEASE!!
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# 1
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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Default UKPC Ticket Belfast HELP PLEASE!!

Hi Guys. I have been reading this forum for a number of years but have never needed to ask a question as I always got my answers from other posts

I have read all the threads regarding UKPC tickets and I understand everyone says to ignore them and I had fully intended to until I was talking to someone from Citizens Advice. Well!!!......they well and truly put the wind up me. They asked me was I prepared to take this thing the whole way to court if it came to it - well, umm.... maybe not!!?? That really scares me silly!!! They said if it does go that far I will need to show that I tried to negotiate with them, tried to sort it out basically!!

I can’t afford the 90 they are asking for at the minute so there’s no way in hell I can afford to go to court. I have drafted up a letter to them but haven’t sent it as yet. Would someone please look it over for me as I’m no good at this type of thing. I used the template letter from Martin with a few additions of my own. I would really appreciate it.

I understand the whole ‘Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations’ thing and I know the charges are completely extortionate as to park for a full day in a paid ticketed car park in Belfast City Centre is only 4.50 so how can they justify 90 in a free car park!!!!!!???? THEY CAN’T!!!!! I know all this, this is not what I’m asking. It’s the whole court thing. Does anyone have any experience with one of these things going the whole way to court and do they have any way I could get out of it without having to pay big money???

This is the letter I have drafted:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Ref number:
Vehicle registration number:

You issued me with a parking ticket on ????????? but I believe it was unlawfully issued and I will not be meeting your demand for payment.

Firstly, I only learned about this ticket when I received your letter on ???????. There was no ticket on the car on ????????. I do realise that you have photos with the ticket displayed on the bottom corner of the passenger window but this was not there when returning, so someone must have removed it.

Secondly, I never saw any signs when entering the car park about any sort of fines or terms and conditions, and I’ve been parking in that car park since it opened. Therefore I believe I never entered into any sort of ‘contract’ with either you or the landowner. Tell them to erect BIGGER/CLEARER signs!

The main reason I will not be paying this extortionate amount of money is:
The fee is disproportionate
(Under common law, the cost of a penalty must reflect the damages suffered by the company issuing it.)
According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the 90 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner on a FREE car park.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you address the specific points raised in my letter.

Yours faithfully,


Thank you

Last edited by flixxchick; 21-02-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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# 2
peter_the_piper
Old 21-02-2013, 11:51 AM
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I don't know if anyone on here is Au Fait with the regs for NI so as an addition post on the private parking section on pepipoo.com, they have a lot of people on there who should be able to help you.
ps, Citizens Advice ALWAYS say pay up, its all they know.
Confucius Say...Man without grass in garden looks forlorn
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# 3
marcowil
Old 21-02-2013, 11:55 AM
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The law here is the same as the rest of the UK - you can IGNORE this speculative invoice.

Citizens advice obviously need some additional training
The Daily Mail
Tagline - "Why let the truth get in the way of a story to incense Middle England"
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# 4
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_the_piper View Post
I don't know if anyone on here is Au Fait with the regs for NI so as an addition post on the private parking section on pepipoo.com, they have a lot of people on there who should be able to help you.
ps, Citizens Advice ALWAYS say pay up, its all they know.
Thanks for your reply
I may be wrong but I don't think pepipoo covers Northern Ireland!!??
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# 5
peter_the_piper
Old 21-02-2013, 12:09 PM
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Have you asked?
Confucius Say...Man without grass in garden looks forlorn
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# 6
spacey2012
Old 21-02-2013, 12:09 PM
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I often think if the citizens Advice must be in on the scam ?
They do issue absolute bull$hit for advice on the fake parking ticket scam.
They get this advice from the trade club of the scammers.
For an organisation that boasts to have barristers working for them, you really would think they would seek the legal position on these Impersonation of real parking tickets scams.
It just does not add up, somewhere someone must be up to it.
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# 7
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_the_piper View Post
Have you asked?
I'm just gonna check it out now, cheers
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# 8
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacey2012 View Post
I often think if the citizens Advice must be in on the scam ?
They do issue absolute bull$hit for advice on the fake parking ticket scam.
They get this advice from the trade club of the scammers.
For an organisation that boasts to have barristers working for them, you really would think they would seek the legal position on these Impersonation of real parking tickets scams.
It just does not add up, somewhere someone must be up to it.
You could be right ya know. They hadn't even seen one of the letters I received. They did read through it, said it look official, then looked really, really shocked when I said I had no intention of paying it and was going to ignore.

From a legal point of view they said having some sort of proof I tried to sort it out would help my case if it ever did come to court. Then they started going on about court fees and the other sides legal cost. Scared the **** outta me to be honest
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# 9
Coupon-mad
Old 21-02-2013, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flixxchick View Post
You could be right ya know. They hadn't even seen one of the letters I received. They did read through it, said it look official, then looked really, really shocked when I said I had no intention of paying it and was going to ignore.

From a legal point of view they said having some sort of proof I tried to sort it out would help my case if it ever did come to court. Then they started going on about court fees and the other sides legal cost. Scared the **** outta me to be honest


Ignore it completely and COMPLAIN to the Line Manager at the CAB that wrong advice has been given about fake PCNs. For the CAB to be taking it seriously is naive at the very least, sharp practice even. It only takes a quick Google to understand the facts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

Letters to expect from these cowboys:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=2329119

In NI, there is no POPLA appeals service so there is no point whatsoever in appealing. No point at all. You are right about the unclear signs issue but it's not worth wasting a stamp over. Far easier to ignore UKPC.

And shove this fact down the CAB's throat. UKPC have NEVER taken anyone to Court, almost no PPC ever tries a small claim at all. A PPC would lose a defended claim.

And just as importantly, UKPC do not own the car park (they own none AFAIK) so have no right to 'offer spaces to park' and certainly no right to any small claim. In theory the landowner could, if there was a loss proveable - but not a private firm with a few signs up and no ownership rights and no way to 'offer' the parking space (the landowner/occupier offers it, not them).

Therefore no contract exists and no loss has been suffered by UKPC. The same is true for ANY PPC that does not own or have leasehold property rights in the car park. They act as 'agents' for the landowner only, on a contract with the landowner basis only. There is no enforceable contract they can make with a driver.

They have no other rights, it's all bluff and bluster involving some signs, some pieces of paper and an impersonation of authority that the CAB should really see right through.

The CAB should be embarrassed about their advice - we understand that it was written by a PPC owner years ago who was also a CAB adviser at the time. It's advice based on a bias, a severe conflict of interests that has never been resolved despite letters pointing it out. COMPLAIN.
Ticket in a private car park in England/Wales?... DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT- the advice changed in 2012/13!

CLICK on '>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking>' end of the small blue 'Home>Forums>' link, top of the page, to see current threads.
Do NOT read older advice to ignore, unless it was in Scotland or NI.

Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-02-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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# 10
fisherjim
Old 21-02-2013, 3:09 PM
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UKPC are idiots and scammers, I had one of their fake tickets last year, for parking slightly out of the box.
It was followed up with their fake debt collection agency letters from both Debt recovery plus, and their other scam firm Zenith.
I ignored all of them and they have stopped, after their threats, increases in charges and then their desperate letters offering a reduction if I pay, pretty please, beg beg!

If their charges were legit why do they impersonate real parking tickets?
They would only need to put an invoice on your screen send you a reminder and say you will pay it or else!
But that's not what they do because it's just a moneymaking scam and they threaten and harass instead.
Don't fall for it, and I'm sorry but the CAB are just as stupid, we had a posting about this before, and it seems that they have just lazily contacted the other scammers in the chain (the BPA) for advice.
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# 11
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_the_piper View Post
I don't know if anyone on here is Au Fait with the regs for NI so as an addition post on the private parking section on pepipoo.com, they have a lot of people on there who should be able to help you.
ps, Citizens Advice ALWAYS say pay up, its all they know.
Thanks for the advice on pepipoo. Checked them out and you were right they do cover NI. A lot of other similar cases as mine.

Thanks again
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# 12
flixxchick
Old 21-02-2013, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coupon-mad View Post
Ignore it completely and COMPLAIN to the Line Manager at the CAB that wrong advice has been given about fake PCNs. For the CAB to be taking it seriously is naive at the very least, sharp practice even. It only takes a quick Google to understand the facts:

Letters to expect from these cowboys:


In NI, there is no POPLA appeals service so there is no point whatsoever in appealing. No point at all. You are right about the unclear signs issue but it's not worth wasting a stamp over. Far easier to ignore UKPC.

And shove this fact down the CAB's throat. UKPC have NEVER taken anyone to Court, almost no PPC ever tries a small claim at all. A PPC would lose a defended claim.

And just as importantly, UKPC do not own the car park (they own none AFAIK) so have no right to 'offer spaces to park'. In theory the landowner could, if there was a loss proveable - but not a private firm with a few signs up and no ownership rights and no way to 'offer' the parking space (the landowner/occupier offers it, not them).

Therefore no contract exists and no loss has been suffered by UKPC. The same is true for ANY PPC that does not own or have leasehold property rights in the car park. They act as 'agents' for the landowner only, on a contract with the landowner basis only. There is no enforceable contract they can make with a driver.

They have no other rights, it's all bluff and bluster involving some signs, some pieces of paper and an impersonation of authority that the CAB should really see right through.

The CAB should be embarrassed about their advice - we understand that it was written by a PPC owner years ago who was also a CAB adviser at the time. It's advice based on a bias, a severe conflict of interests that has never been resolved despite letters pointing it out. COMPLAIN.
I think I might just do that. They are supposed to be INDEPENDENT and on our side. Putting the wind up us is just not helping!!!

Cheers
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# 13
hushman
Old 23-02-2013, 6:18 PM
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got a ticket in boucher road belfast {outside petworld}looking for 60-posted on here and was told DON,T PAY !!. As it happens was driving across millfield on wednesday last week and spotted to "legit" traffic wardens. Done a quick U turn and pulled up beside them. I asked them if they had a minute , they said of course. I started telling theme about what happened the previous sunday and before I got the first sentence out one of them said, "dont tell me one of them f%%king ukpc guys give you a ticket" I kid you not. His words to me were, and I quote, " tear the f??king ticket up, they have no right to be issuing tickets, there a private company trying there luck".

So I now await the first of the letters to start arriving...

good luck hush.
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# 14
flixxchick
Old 25-02-2013, 9:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hushman View Post
got a ticket in boucher road belfast {outside petworld}looking for 60-posted on here and was told DON,T PAY !!. As it happens was driving across millfield on wednesday last week and spotted to "legit" traffic wardens. Done a quick U turn and pulled up beside them. I asked them if they had a minute , they said of course. I started telling theme about what happened the previous sunday and before I got the first sentence out one of them said, "dont tell me one of them f%%king ukpc guys give you a ticket" I kid you not. His words to me were, and I quote, " tear the f??king ticket up, they have no right to be issuing tickets, there a private company trying there luck".

So I now await the first of the letters to start arriving...

good luck hush.
And it's not like the 'red coats' to be nice!! (maybe some of them are)

Thanks hush, that's good to know

I was talking to someone in 'Law' over the weekend and they pretty much said the same thing. They are gonna get some info together for me so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. Just for peace of mind!!
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# 15
hushman
Old 25-02-2013, 4:50 PM
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your very welcome..... If you get any feedback from the "law" dont forget to post up there findings....Surely were no different from the rest of the uk are we ??.

good luck hush.
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# 16
hushman
Old 23-04-2013, 3:20 PM
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Ok have just received my first letter and they now want 100.... it has taken since the 16th of feb to today 22nd april {make that more than 60days}phoned the consumer council of northern ireland and they said that they are well within there rights to ask for payment !!. I said have they ever looked at this forum which they said no. I explained that I had spoke to a policeman and traffic wardens{proper wardens that is} and they have said under no circumstances should I pay. Something needs to be done in parliment to have these scammers stopped. The law is to grey {who is right and who is wrong}I will hold out to see what happens.......


good luck hush.
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# 17
Coupon-mad
Old 23-04-2013, 3:31 PM
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Yep just ignore it completely, except if ever they tried a small claim (won't happen!).
Ticket in a private car park in England/Wales?... DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT- the advice changed in 2012/13!

CLICK on '>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking>' end of the small blue 'Home>Forums>' link, top of the page, to see current threads.
Do NOT read older advice to ignore, unless it was in Scotland or NI.
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# 18
pogofish
Old 23-04-2013, 3:35 PM
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Yup, POFA only applies in England and Wales - so you don't have either Keeper Liability or POPLA in Scotland or NI. So IGNORING the scam and the meaningless scary letters is you only best option.
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# 19
hushman
Old 23-04-2013, 3:57 PM
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thanks all, just needed reassuring. I wonder if it did reach court could I call up martin lewis as a character witness lol !!.

regards hush
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# 20
flixxchick
Old 23-04-2013, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hushman View Post
Ok have just received my first letter and they now want 100.... it has taken since the 16th of feb to today 22nd april {make that more than 60days}phoned the consumer council of northern ireland and they said that they are well within there rights to ask for payment !!. I said have they ever looked at this forum which they said no. I explained that I had spoke to a policeman and traffic wardens{proper wardens that is} and they have said under no circumstances should I pay. Something needs to be done in parliment to have these scammers stopped. The law is to grey {who is right and who is wrong}I will hold out to see what happens.......


good luck hush.

Well, I've heard nothing since I got my letter. The "incident" happened to me at the beginning of December, according to their records!! I did write to them asking for proof that this wasn't a scam. I haven't heard anything. Maybe mine is in the post
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