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  • FIRST POST
    prowla
    HMV false advertising
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 12, 2:43 PM
    HMV false advertising 5th Dec 12 at 2:43 PM
    I went out to buy a Wii U today.

    My local HMV had a large display just by the door with various bundles at a quite good price, so I thought I would get one.
    1. I got the attention of a salesperson and said I would like one.
    2. She said she thought they didn't have any in stock.
    3. So I asked when they were getting some.
    4. She said she wasn't sure but could check.
    5. I said sure, that's fine.
    6. She said they didn't have any due.
    7. I asked if I could order one for when they were due in.
    8. She said they didn't have any on order.
    9. I asked if I could order one for when they next came in.
    10. She said they couldn't accept orders.
    11. Huh?
    So, HMV have a big display up offering an item for sale that they (a) don't have, (b) haven't ordered, and (c) aren't accepting orders for.


    What the heck is the point?
Page 2
  • JamesK10
    Mind you this sort of things has been going on for years. I remember my mum, having to try a dozen or more shops to find one which had a ZX81 in stock, back in 1982.
    Originally posted by fozmcfc
    Nintendo have also been pulling this deliberate shortage crap since the days of the NES, as well as CEX selling the Wii for double the RRP I remember the episode of some consumer programme, probably Watchdog, where they reported the amount of stock every other continental European country had of the original Wii compared to the UK. Relatives of mine copied Nomoneytoday and bought from Germany for the original Wii.

    It's not HMV's (or Game's or any other UK retailer's) fault, despite the rubbish service the OP received being squarely down to the shop, that shop is dealing with a nightmare manufacturer and supplier that likes to artificially hike the demand level before Christmas for everything they sell, especially when brand new.
  • fozmcfc
    Nintendo have also been pulling this deliberate shortage crap since the days of the NES, as well as CEX selling the Wii for double the RRP I remember the episode of some consumer programme, probably Watchdog, where they reported the amount of stock every other continental European country had of the original Wii compared to the UK. Relatives of mine copied Nomoneytoday and bought from Germany for the original Wii.

    It's not HMV's (or Game's or any other UK retailer's) fault, despite the rubbish service the OP received being squarely down to the shop, that shop is dealing with a nightmare manufacturer and supplier that likes to artificially hike the demand level before Christmas for everything they sell, especially when brand new.
    Originally posted by JamesK10
    My been going on for years comment, was referring to shortages of technology products that has been going on for years.

    In this case and in my case of the ZX81, I don't blame the shops it is definitely the companies, not being able to meet demand.

    Just want to make that clear, that I appreciate the shops aren't at fault on that score.

    But, it would take 5 mins tops to get a pieces of paper, write all Wii U's out of stock or similar and put it over the advertising.

    Surely this would benefit the shop, as they wouldn't have numerous people getting frustrated/annoyed, when they go in to be told, no sorry we are advertising it, but we don't have any.

    Of course there will always be people who will ignore it or not read the notice and still ask. But at least you have a notice to say, well we did have a notice to that effect.

    I bet now they are getting people saying, why the hell, don't you put a notice up saying out of stock and save me wasting my time.
  • MamaMoo
    Just about the sign, when I worked at Gamestation, we were not allowed to put "Sold Out" signs up at all. Apparently, this could stop people from coming in, at which poor they may see something else they would want to purchase. It's possible HMV have a similar policy
  • tower
    Hi, i had the same sort of problem with HMV when i was trying to buy a new ipod (gen5) for my dd. They had a trade in offer of 75 on ipod(gen3) which i thought was good. Anyway they had no stock in all their stores and were waiting for delivery from Apple.
    The offer ran for 4 weeks and they finally got some stock 2 days before it ended..
  • bluenoseam
    Hi, i had the same sort of problem with HMV when i was trying to buy a new ipod (gen5) for my dd. They had a trade in offer of 75 on ipod(gen3) which i thought was good. Anyway they had no stock in all their stores and were waiting for delivery from Apple.
    The offer ran for 4 weeks and they finally got some stock 2 days before it ended..
    Originally posted by tower
    And Apple are every bit as bad as Nintendo if not worse, they will routinely exhaust stock before replenishment at a warehouse level, when combined with high demand you get yourself an issue!

    I won't deny HMV have been badly run for years, there's no secret in that - your share price doesn't go to 2.5p for no reason! But in this instance they're not really doing anything wrong or incorrect.
  • fozmcfc
    Just about the sign, when I worked at Gamestation, we were not allowed to put "Sold Out" signs up at all. Apparently, this could stop people from coming in, at which poor they may see something else they would want to purchase. It's possible HMV have a similar policy
    Originally posted by MamaMoo
    Yes I can well imagine that they probably aren't allowed and for the reason you say as well.

    But I bet it will still p a lot of people off and the staff get the flak, particularly when very likely many would have been Christmas presents for kids.

    I suppose they must have done research, which suggests that p'ing off some customers, is still ok, if they make sales they might have not, if they had an out of stock sign up.
  • prowla
    Right I'm not quite sure if you know this, but in 19 days there's this little festival/holiday thing called "CHRISTMAS" for most retail stores this happens to be their PEAK TRADING PERIOD. Having been in an HMV stockroom at Christmas I can tell you upwards of 100 phone calls a day will come into a small shop. As you can imagine that takes someone time to stop working & answer the phone as well as answer the question - I assure you, 100 phone calls you'll probably find 99 of those phone calls were pointless! (think along the lines of "do you have the new Kelly Clarkson CD in stock?" and you'll be close).

    When it comes to a certain point in the year they cannot spare staff to act like receptionists when every member of staff in there is up to their eyes in customers & work that needs doing. The stockrooms are filled with items coming in which all needs to be sorted out 15 minutes ago as your CD guy needs a list of stock that he's given you that morning. I know it's difficult to understand but common sense should tell you that when things are the way they are at Christmas "normal service" is impossible!

    If you were REALLY that fussed about it, you had months to pre-order the console - sorry to sound like a jerk but you're expecting them to bend over backwards because you're spending 400?
    Originally posted by bluenoseam
    About that last sentence - you do rather...

    I'm not expecting anybody to bend over backwards and I am not complaining about product availability (and we all know that Nintendo play that "shortage" game anyway); it is about the shop advertising items that they don't and can't sell (ie. (a) they have none, (b) they have none ordered, (c) they won't accept orders).

    Sounds like the store isnt at fault tbut rather HO or whoever was in charge of ordering the stock ( they might have been told you have x amount of Wii U by the guys at Nintendo )
    Originally posted by DCFC79
    Yes - it probably is HO, and (as I said) they have none on order.
  • bluenoseam
    Actually I wouldn't rather expect anyone to bend over backwards to sell me a console - although that's more because I know the "margins" on these things and they're not worth writing home about! In essence your purchase probably nets them less profit than the guy who just came in, grabbed the latest Now CD, Ted on DVD & a mars bar at the counter - I kid you not!

    You're also conveniently forgetting what I'd said, while I agree it takes 30 seconds to put a "SOLD OUT" sign up, it could be they've been told not to given the uncertain nature of replenishment for the item. They get them in and essentially they need to sell out within an hour of getting them in the back door OR their area manager will be so far up their backside he'll be able to brush their teeth! With these things the quicker you sell out the further up "the list" you are when they're dishing them out at HO.

    Like I've said multiple times, HO have ZERO control over it, Nintendo released 40,000 Wii U consoles to the UK for launch, think about that for just a few seconds. They released less consoles than there were people at the average English Premiership match - what do you want either HMV or infact Game/Argos/anyone else who stocks these things to do when they're basically being supplied from a stock THAT small?
  • prowla
    Actually I wouldn't rather expect anyone to bend over backwards to sell me a console - although that's more because I know the "margins" on these things and they're not worth writing home about! In essence your purchase probably nets them less profit than the guy who just came in, grabbed the latest Now CD, Ted on DVD & a mars bar at the counter - I kid you not!

    You're also conveniently forgetting what I'd said, while I agree it takes 30 seconds to put a "SOLD OUT" sign up, it could be they've been told not to given the uncertain nature of replenishment for the item. They get them in and essentially they need to sell out within an hour of getting them in the back door OR their area manager will be so far up their backside he'll be able to brush their teeth! With these things the quicker you sell out the further up "the list" you are when they're dishing them out at HO.

    Like I've said multiple times, HO have ZERO control over it, Nintendo released 40,000 Wii U consoles to the UK for launch, think about that for just a few seconds. They released less consoles than there were people at the average English Premiership match - what do you want either HMV or infact Game/Argos/anyone else who stocks these things to do when they're basically being supplied from a stock THAT small?
    Originally posted by bluenoseam
    Like I said - it's not about whether there is stock in the country; it's about whether a particular shop should offer things for sale that they full well know they do not have and will not have.

    So what I want is for them to not put up a sign saying "come on in and get yer luvverly consolez", when they don't have any to sell.

    And of course, it's not just about the console, but also the games and accessories. In the end, if a shop can't make a profit selling an item then they are being fools to themselves to stock it.
  • bluenoseam
    Like I said - it's not about whether there is stock in the country; it's about whether a particular shop should offer things for sale that they full well know they do not have and will not have.

    So what I want is for them to not put up a sign saying "come on in and get yer luvverly consolez", when they don't have any to sell.

    And of course, it's not just about the console, but also the games and accessories. In the end, if a shop can't make a profit selling an item then they are being fools to themselves to stock it.
    Originally posted by prowla
    Ultimately they're advertising something they CAN sell when they have the stock (you'll almost always find a disclaimer somewhere in the shop saying products available where stocks last), that's basic retail common sense.

    As for "if they can't make a profit selling an item" again, it's long term thinking, they might not make any profit on the console/bundle but they WILL make a profit on the games after the initial bundle purchase. Now if you take that viewpoint no one would sell the consoles - for as long as I worked in games retail new console sales were the smallest margin products in store! But you HAVE to sell them if you want to sell your core product - if you get my meaning - it's a necessary evil.
  • prowla
    Ultimately they're advertising something they CAN sell when they have the stock (you'll almost always find a disclaimer somewhere in the shop saying products available where stocks last), that's basic retail common sense.

    As for "if they can't make a profit selling an item" again, it's long term thinking, they might not make any profit on the console/bundle but they WILL make a profit on the games after the initial bundle purchase. Now if you take that viewpoint no one would sell the consoles - for as long as I worked in games retail new console sales were the smallest margin products in store! But you HAVE to sell them if you want to sell your core product - if you get my meaning - it's a necessary evil.
    Originally posted by bluenoseam
    They are advertising something that they have no expectation of selling this year, and with no disclaimers on display, which is false advertising.

    Also, they are showing a certain price, which they may not be able to honour (and will probably change) when they do get the product next year.

    On the point about the console being a loss leader - I didn't buy any games from them either.
  • Dave_C
    I suppose they must have done research, which suggests that p'ing off some customers, is still ok, if they make sales they might have not, if they had an out of stock sign up.
    Originally posted by fozmcfc
    This has always baffled me. Shirley any research done by HMV can only use the HMV store figures, so is only applicable to HMV customers.

    Many of the great unwashed public like me go nowhere near HMV and prefer to shop online at the likes of Amazon. It's cheaper, you know it's in stock and better customer service. HMV will never attract my business.

    Even Argos has an online stock check!

    Dave
  • bluenoseam
    While I know you won't go anywhere near an HMV Dave_C I would inform you they too have an online stock check & reserve facility these days. Hasn't been up for long but it's there.
  • pmduk
    I wouldn't be surprised if this was HMV's last Christmas. They provide nothing that can't be done better online - and cheaper.
  • rustyboy21
    Ultimately they're advertising something they CAN sell when they have the stock (you'll almost always find a disclaimer somewhere in the shop saying products available where stocks last), that's basic retail common sense.

    As for "if they can't make a profit selling an item" again, it's long term thinking, they might not make any profit on the console/bundle but they WILL make a profit on the games after the initial bundle purchase. Now if you take that viewpoint no one would sell the consoles - for as long as I worked in games retail new console sales were the smallest margin products in store! But you HAVE to sell them if you want to sell your core product - if you get my meaning - it's a necessary evil.
    Originally posted by bluenoseam
    This is the problem though.

    IMO the people who are moaning about this, are only trying to get them from the stores, as they cannot get them off the internet !

    HMV have a cat in hells chance of making any profit from games sales later, as the people who have bought the console from them, will of course abandon the shop and buy online. So any profit they make off the console, will be the only profit they will ever see.

    And people are moaning saying they are getting bad customer service ! Why should you receive good service, if you have no intention of buying from them again, you are just using them to greedily get what you want, with no intention of becoming a regular customer of theirs.

    It is a 2 way street guys !
  • Valli
    This has always baffled me. Shirley any research done by HMV can only use the HMV store figures, so is only applicable to HMV customers.

    Many of the great unwashed public like me go nowhere near HMV and prefer to shop online at the likes of Amazon. It's cheaper, you know it's in stock and better customer service. HMV will never attract my business.

    Even Argos has an online stock check!

    Dave
    Originally posted by Dave_C

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  • ThumbRemote
    This is the problem though.

    IMO the people who are moaning about this, are only trying to get them from the stores, as they cannot get them off the internet !

    HMV have a cat in hells chance of making any profit from games sales later, as the people who have bought the console from them, will of course abandon the shop and buy online. So any profit they make off the console, will be the only profit they will ever see.

    And people are moaning saying they are getting bad customer service ! Why should you receive good service, if you have no intention of buying from them again, you are just using them to greedily get what you want, with no intention of becoming a regular customer of theirs.

    It is a 2 way street guys !
    Originally posted by rustyboy21
    So:
    You've made up the fact that people only want to buy them from the stores as they can't get hold of them online
    You've made up the fact that people who buy consoles in the shops will then buy games online later
    You've made up the fact that people are greedy and don't intend to be a regular customer.

    Apart from that, good post.
  • barbiedoll
    When I worked in Woolworths years ago, we always had the same problem at Christmas, if it wasn't the bloody Thunderbirds Tracey Island, it was Disney videos, or Take That cd's or something else that everybody wanted.

    I do understand what Bluenoseam is saying about the phone calls, I've spent ages both on the phone and in person to people, trying to explain that I had absolutely no control over stock shortages for products from China. I've been shouted at, sworn at and made to feel totally and uniquely responsible for ruining a child's Christmas.

    Having said that, the simple solution is to tape a piece of A4 paper to the front of the display saying.....

    NOT CURRENTLY IN STOCK
    NO DEFINITE DATE FOR DELIVERY
    RESERVATIONS CURRENTLY NOT TAKEN FOR THIS ITEM
    SORRY!

    It would save a lot of time for both customers and store assistants!
    "I may be many things but not being indiscreet isn't one of them"
  • prowla
    This is the problem though.

    IMO the people who are moaning about this, are only trying to get them from the stores, as they cannot get them off the internet !

    HMV have a cat in hells chance of making any profit from games sales later, as the people who have bought the console from them, will of course abandon the shop and buy online. So any profit they make off the console, will be the only profit they will ever see.

    And people are moaning saying they are getting bad customer service ! Why should you receive good service, if you have no intention of buying from them again, you are just using them to greedily get what you want, with no intention of becoming a regular customer of theirs.

    It is a 2 way street guys !
    Originally posted by rustyboy21
    A shop is there to sell things, right?

    If you don't have anything to sell then there are no sales, obviously.

    I've bought things in HMV because (a) it was convenient, and (b) the price was right.

    Buying via the internet has its pluses and minuses too.

    But if a shop goes out with the attitude that there's no point in selling a product, then it's probably a self-fulfilling attitude and they probably won't sell a lot.

    But anyway, in my case, the price was good, it's just that they didn't have the product to sell that they were offering.
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