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Incapacity to Employment and support Allowance
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# 1
pauliew
Old 01-05-2012, 11:14 PM
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Angry Incapacity to Employment and support Allowance

Hi can anyone advise me ,I was medically retired from the Civil Service aged 47,in 2004 .I was also given my full pension ,added ToThat,I also received a frozen pension from a previous employer,who agreed withnCivil services doctors .
I have been on incapacity benefit and High rate DLA indefinitely ,all was ok,until I was notified I was changing to Employment and support allowance,went for the medical exam and have been told I am now going on the work related employment and support ,contribution based for 1 year only,I will not qualify for income based next year because of my Pension. Income,
My question is the person who done medical exam has said her prognosis is that I could be fit to go back to work in around 3 months!!not to offend anyone but her job description on report is a physotherapist..
Now surley as my condition has not changed and will in fact not improve(I have chronic pelvis pain syndrome)and Benifts agency no this from previous ib50 reports.
Can this be right,I am appealing but can anyone offer any advice of what else I can do,I'm really stressed and worried about future.
Any advise most appreciated,thanks for reading
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# 2
salfordgirl
Old 01-05-2012, 11:32 PM
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You can appeal being based in the work related activity group, but i would look at the descriptors for the support group and look at how they apply to you.

How long ago was your medical? And when did you receive the letter saying that you were in WRAG?
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# 3
woodbine
Old 01-05-2012, 11:34 PM
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the only way out is to be put in the support group,then cb esa doesnt expire after a year,but you have to fit the support group descriptors(google should find them),tbh i`m not sure that you do from the info given
the whole idea of this particular benefit reform is to not pay esa to those who have other income or savings,you or i may not like that but thats the new rules
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# 4
pauliew
Old 01-05-2012, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
Hi can anyone advise me ,I was medically retired from the Civil Service aged 47,in 2004 .I was also given my full pension ,added ToThat,I also received a frozen pension from a previous employer,who agreed withnCivil services doctors .
I have been on incapacity benefit and High rate DLA indefinitely ,all was ok,until I was notified I was changing to Employment and support allowance,went for the medical exam and have been told I am now going on the work related employment and support ,contribution based for 1 year only,I will not qualify for income based next year because of my Pension. Income,
My question is the person who done medical exam has said her prognosis is that I could be fit to go back to work in around 3 months!!not to offend anyone but her job description on report is a physotherapist..
Now surley as my condition has not changed and will in fact not improve(I have chronic pelvis pain syndrome)and Benifts agency no this from previous ib50 reports.
Can this be right,I am appealing but can anyone offer any advice of what else I can do,I'm really stressed and worried about future.
Any advise most appreciated,thanks for reading
I got letter on 17th ,although it was dated 10th,I am sorting Appeal on Friday,can I ask are you saying m medical retirement is irrelevant,even though my specialist and GP,have stated my illness has not changed,also can a Alto medical advisor state that I'm ok to go back to work when they ave no Knowledge of my condion.?
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# 5
rogerblack
Old 01-05-2012, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
I got letter on 17th ,although it was dated 10th,I am sorting Appeal on Friday,can I ask are you saying m medical retirement is irrelevant,even though my specialist and GP,have stated my illness has not changed,also can a Alto medical advisor state that I'm ok to go back to work when they ave no Knowledge of my condion.?
Your diagnosis is not relevant, unless all people with that condition would be eligible for the support group.
Similarly - medical retirement is irrelevant, unless it is for a reason that makes you eligible for the support group.

Medical retirement may be granted because you are not able to do your job.
It does not mean you are unable to do any job.
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# 6
GEMGIRL67
Old 02-05-2012, 12:20 AM
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I have chronic pain every day in my lower back and along with other illnesses my incapacity has now stopped, I even appealed and the tribunal was absolutely horrible to go through and I didnt even win that. As I told them I was able to get to all my dr's and hospital appointments, even with having someone with me, they class it that you are fit and able to do work, they dont care that you are in chronic pain. I am now living off my savings as cant even claim job seekers, just lucky my parents allow me to live at their house.

This new system has effected the genuine cases, not the fraudsters.
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# 7
Muttleythefrog
Old 02-05-2012, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
I got letter on 17th ,although it was dated 10th,I am sorting Appeal on Friday,can I ask are you saying m medical retirement is irrelevant,even though my specialist and GP,have stated my illness has not changed,also can a Alto medical advisor state that I'm ok to go back to work when they ave no Knowledge of my condion.?
I assume this latest letter is your Work Capability Assessment outcome... i.e. you've just been placed in WRAG following transfer. You'll get a month to appeal the decision but I strongly.... repeat STRONGLY... advise you focus on the descriptors for Support Group (or special circumstance criteria for same end) and try to get supporting evidence if you feel any apply. If you feel none apply then you will probably struggle. The DWP will first carry out a reconsideration to see if they can change decision... if not then the papers will go off to tribunals service to arrange appeal... expect all this to take many months if not a year. Before you appeal.. or at least before you give final details of your appeal I would strongly advise you get a copy of all the evidence used to take decision at DWP.. this will include the medical report the DWP will have from ATOS (which it sounds like you already have)... and ask for a ststement of reasons for the decision if not already supplied.... but keep your focus on Support Group qualification criteria.

Issues of qualifications/profession of ATOS HCP and issues of diagnosis, can work, can't work, can do some jobs, was medically retired etc... not important... they're not being tested. But as above... unless you'd qualify for income related ESA then your only hope of being on ESA after 12 months is to be in Support group.

ETA. If there is prognosis of 3 months on the ATOS report then it sounds like the report may well have advised you don't qualify for ESA... it is my understanding that this is a default for failing the WCA...with 6 months minimum otherwise (I could be wrong). If so then the DWP would have rejected the findings of the report.. or at least some of them in determining you are entitled to WRAG. You'll be able to tell by adding up the points of the WRAG descriptors advised in the report as applying to you... here they are listed http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/wca.

...and here's the Support group descriptors. http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra
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Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 02-05-2012 at 1:19 AM.
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# 8
pauliew
Old 02-05-2012, 1:38 AM
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Sorry what are the special circumstances criteria?
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# 9
Muttleythefrog
Old 02-05-2012, 1:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
Sorry what are the special circumstances criteria?
This is the DWP WCA guide. Page 33.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf
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# 10
Broke n Broken
Old 02-05-2012, 2:07 AM
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Nobody's happy about losing money but since you have a pension income to live on, the government says you don't need the ESA. You have DLA too, so do you need the ESA? You should look to reducing your expenses.
I read on another thread that they automatically put IB claimants on contribution based ESA wrag, so I'm not judging, just asking.
If you feel you should be in support group then you should appeal based on this, though from what I've rad, you only need to be physically capable of doing some type of work to be in wrag.
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# 11
rogerblack
Old 02-05-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke n Broken View Post
I read on another thread that they automatically put IB claimants on contribution based ESA wrag, so I'm not judging, just asking.
This isn't correct - some are put without a medical in the support group.

If enough are, is another question.
As mentioned above, appeal, if you qualify.
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# 12
Muttleythefrog
Old 02-05-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke n Broken View Post
Nobody's happy about losing money but since you have a pension income to live on, the government says you don't need the ESA. You have DLA too, so do you need the ESA? You should look to reducing your expenses.
I read on another thread that they automatically put IB claimants on contribution based ESA wrag, so I'm not judging, just asking.
If you feel you should be in support group then you should appeal based on this, though from what I've rad, you only need to be physically capable of doing some type of work to be in wrag.
I think it's important we stick to the focus of getting people their entitlements.. whether they need the money is probably for another place.

The statement you've read regarding transfers from IB is not true... people coming from IB can be placed into either group or denied ESA. Whether they are required to have a face to face medical as part of that assessment for transfer is a question answered on individual basis.

Regarding criteria for support group. Again what you've read isn't technically accurate. To qualify for the support you need to be accepted as having met at least one support group descriptor or special circumstance criteria for support group. Whether you are capable of some type of work is actually totally irrelevant... the work capability assessment at best may carry headline statements like this for tabloid classifications regarding ESA.... but the WCA in reality simply looks for whether statements of disability in various areas of function (and some non function) written into law apply to the claimant. Depending upon which ones are found to apply determines which group, if any, the claimant gets put in.
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# 13
mynameistallulah
Old 02-05-2012, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
not to offend anyone but her job description on report is a physotherapist..
Now surley as my condition has not changed and will in fact not improve(I have chronic pelvis pain syndrome)
A physio is far more likely to have expertise in such a condition than a GP - best to let go of your preconceived ideas before approaching any appeal.

Do you meet any of the Support Group descriptors?
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# 14
1plus1equal3
Old 02-05-2012, 3:33 PM
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sorry if i am on the wrong page, im not very computer literate, and not sure how to post on these forums.I have been recieving income support for 3 years, i became ill with fibromyalgia, and pain amplification after falling into a hole at work, (i didnt claim compensation for it).At the moment i recieve 71 income support and an additional 30.35 for illness/disability, making a total of 101.35, it is my belief that people are being moved off of income support , and on to esa, and that not many make it into the support group, so the probability is, that i will be in the work related group.But correct me if i am wrong , this is only 71 plus 28.15 work related premium, which will be a reduction of nearly 2 a week, it probably seems trival to some on here, but i live on a very tight budget, as i live in a totally electric house , which though it is meant to be cheap to run , has proven to be extremely expensive , so every penny counts. I dont understand why the rates are lower, can anyone advise please.
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# 15
HB58
Old 02-05-2012, 3:44 PM
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1+1=3, AIUI, there are transitional arrangements in place to ensure that people do not lose out financially when transferring from IB to ESA. As long as you are awarded ESA, you should continue to get at least as much money as you do now (but you would not get any annual increases until ESA has caught up with your current award).
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# 16
pauliew
Old 03-05-2012, 3:23 PM
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Hi thanks for all the replys,and please don't judge that I have no need for the benefits,I have a mortgage,pay all my council tax and pay tax on Benifts and pension.My pensions are only 400'a month,not enough to pay all bills and mortgage etc,I have no debt luckily,as I paid it off..
Also I receive my Disabilty benefit now but what about next year with the new benefit coming in,so I may lose that also,so may loose my home as I can't pay mortgage,,also if I move I will loose my support network
It's a extremely worrying time
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# 17
Broke n Broken
Old 03-05-2012, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke n Broken View Post
I'm not judging, just asking.
.
This is what i was getting at....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauliew View Post
I have a mortgage,pay all my council tax and pay tax on Benifts and pension.My pensions are only 400'a month,not enough to pay all bills and mortgage etc
Sorry that wasn't clear, and I should have added the disclaimer "It seems..." for the rest. That's posting at 2am eh?
Those on ESA alone only get about 400 a month, plus some other benefits which you may get.
If/ when you lose you ESA you may qualify for council tax benefit, LHA to pay mortgage interest and you should stop paying tax on your income, though I'm not sure.
Isn't there a scheme where the gov. tops up your pension if it's under a certain amount? Again not sure.
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# 18
pauliew
Old 04-05-2012, 3:32 PM
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Hi thanks for all the replies,I have seen My Benifits advisor,he said what I had come to believe relunctantly that I have no grounds for Appel,so I will just have to save like an Fiend for the next year,it will be hard but I'll get by,I always do,cheers for all advice folk,
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