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  • FIRST POST
    hopfarm
    Sold as seen?
    • #1
    • 3rd Apr 12, 6:56 AM
    Sold as seen? 3rd Apr 12 at 6:56 AM
    In June last year I purchased an oak dining room table and 8 chairs from a large independent retailer.I showed interest in a table and was told it was free if I purchased chairs ,when I asked why I was told that the original purchaser had refused it because they didnt like the grain of the wood.I purchased 8 matching chairs (£1400) and the set was delivered 8 weeks later.Yesterday I noticed the top of the table had developed a split along the grain,I phoned the retailer and was told that it had always had a split and that is why it had been sold as seen! I would never have accepted it with a split but it is there word against mine.My receipt lists the table as f.o.c (sold as seen) and 8 chairs at £1400 can anyone give any advice on where I stand?
Page 1
    • paddyrg
    • By paddyrg 3rd Apr 12, 7:02 AM
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    paddyrg
    • #2
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:02 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:02 AM
    Did you see the table? Was it in the shop to see when you bought it? If so, you had a chance to inspect the goods there - are you saying the split only happened between you buying it and delivery?
  • hopfarm
    • #3
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:28 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:28 AM
    We saw the table in the showroom and it was perfect,there was no split when it was delivered it must have been forming over the last few months. We have had it less than a year and thought it would last for years.My argument is why would I have spent £1400 on chairs to go with a table that will probably only last a year!
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 3rd Apr 12, 7:35 AM
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    unholyangel
    • #4
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:35 AM
    • #4
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:35 AM
    Its a grey area. Technically for retailers, there is no such thing as "sold as seen". Trading Standards Institute has this to say about it:

    Under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 it is also a criminal offence to mislead a consumer about his/her legal rights. Examples might include stating ‘no refunds’ or ‘sold as seen’.

    And as for acceptance of the fault.....they must have either:
    a) drawn your attention to that specific fault or
    b) given you the opportunity to inspect the table and the fault must be obvious upon inspection

    MSE also has an article here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#freebie
    This is a tricky area in consumer rights. Technically when something's free there's no contract with the supplier, so you're not entitled to get a faulty item fixed.

    Yet if it was a free gift as part of a purchase, eg sign up for a mobile contact and get a laptop with it – that's different, you've exactly the same SadFart rights as if you'd paid for it. Most sellers are aware of this, but, if they try to fob you off, stand your ground.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 3rd Apr 12, 7:37 AM
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    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:37 AM
    • #5
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:37 AM
    We saw the table in the showroom and it was perfect,there was no split when it was delivered it must have been forming over the last few months. We have had it less than a year and thought it would last for years.My argument is why would I have spent £1400 on chairs to go with a table that will probably only last a year!
    Originally posted by hopfarm
    Since its after 6 months from purchase, the burden of proof would be on you to prove the fault is inherent and has not been caused by misuse/natural wear n tear.

    Not all retailers require this however, I have a feeling your retailer will since they're using such terms as "sold as seen".
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 3rd Apr 12, 7:42 AM
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    Fosterdog
    • #6
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:42 AM
    • #6
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:42 AM
    How bad is the split?
    Do you have any photos taken since June with the table in them (maybe in the background or with a birthday cake on etc.) would these show that the split was not there when it was bought/given with the chairs?
    • paddyrg
    • By paddyrg 3rd Apr 12, 7:45 AM
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    paddyrg
    • #7
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:45 AM
    • #7
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:45 AM
    I doubt it will only last one year, oak is a very strong wood, even though the surface of large pieces can show cracks - have a look in any church rooves and you'll see lumps of oak all cracked and twisted carrying huge weights. It is a very tough material indeed.

    Hmmm if it was delivered and it was prefect then, then something must have happened to cause the split, and that might be something in your home. Perhaps you keep the central heating up, and the rooms very dry? That's the kind of thing that could split a solid piece. Was the fault inherent? It is possible that the the wood had not cured properly before being used, but you will need a report from a furniture expert, and they will charge you for it. You then take it up with the retailer. It may be a fight, they may say that it has not been optimally stored and split from drying out, or not being linseeded properly, or something.

    As for the chairs, if they were not bought as a set with the table, but separate transactions, it may be unlucky. However it sounds as if the chairs work just fine, so perhaps less of an issue. It is not like they are useless without that particular table.

    What would I do? Get a furniture expert/decent craftsman in to look at the table and report on it. As a part of that, invite him to provide a quote for a repair if he were to do it. Then depending on what the report says, go back to the retailer with a bit more evidence, and a proposed remedy (ie they pay for the repair, or take it away to repair themselves). But part of the beauty of oak is that it is extremely tough, and so I doubt the table will fail catastrophically within the next year, if that's a real worry!
    • Hintza
    • By Hintza 3rd Apr 12, 7:56 AM
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    Hintza
    • #8
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:56 AM
    • #8
    • 3rd Apr 12, 7:56 AM
    OP I think you are bu$$ered you have a table which was specifically noted on the invoice as "foc" they could just take the table back an issue a returns note refund..zero. You would thn be back in the position you were before.

    The only argument you can have is that you wouldn't have bought the chairs without the table and chase down that route. But I suspect this will be a long fight with an uncertain outcome withot quite a bit of research into case law.

    Out of interest did you pay over the odds for the chairs (ie are they selling much cheaper now)? This might give you a bit of leverage.
    Truth is like poetry. Most people don't like poetry!
    • InsideInsurance
    • By InsideInsurance 3rd Apr 12, 3:05 PM
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    InsideInsurance
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 12, 3:05 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 12, 3:05 PM
    The problem is what is on the invoice. You have bought it as two separate items, a table which they gave you free of charge (FoC) and a set of chairs.

    Even if it is accepted that there is a fault with the table that doesnt give you the right to reject the other items you happened to buy at the same time. Of cause returning the table doesnt give you anything back and you are still stuck with the chairs which presumably you wouldnt want without the table.

    Which company is it? Have you checked what the companies return policy is? It may be possible to return the chairs under the returns policy and probably paying the delivery costs and the table remains yours FOC. Obviously not ideal to lose the money for return carriage but better than nothing.
    • s b
    • By s b 3rd Apr 12, 3:32 PM
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    s b
    if you paid £1400 for 8 chairs then obviously the table would have retailed at a fair amount
    i think you got a fair deal at pos and retailer is in the right

    attention is in the detail =table foc
    • societys child
    • By societys child 3rd Apr 12, 6:33 PM
    • 3,556 Posts
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    societys child
    Got to agree with s b and the thread title is misleading.

    The table was not "sold as seen". It was free of charge. (f.o.c.)
    • Hintza
    • By Hintza 4th Apr 12, 7:06 AM
    • 18,529 Posts
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    Hintza
    My thought was that the shop could have loaded the price of the chairs to cover for the loss on the table. Even then I'm not sure that that would be a valid argument.
    Truth is like poetry. Most people don't like poetry!
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 4th Apr 12, 8:35 AM
    • 9,944 Posts
    • 7,148 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Tbh I think its already been covered by my post above (imo anyways).

    If they had been giving the table away to anyone who wanted it, there would be no contract. But as they are giving it free to someone who purchased the chairs, it was a incentive and as such, the OP has exactly the same rights as if she had paid for the table.

    Furthermore, if they have indeed stated "sold as seen" (and the OP hasn't just worded this themselves) then they are likely to be hot water with TS.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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