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Ford Mondeo - Knackered Pistons...
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# 1
shanks84
Old 14-10-2010, 7:47 PM
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Default Ford Mondeo - Knackered Pistons...

Hi. Took my car for its MOT today. Failed on emissions (quite spectacularly). Apparently 2 of the pistons are stuck, and according to the mechanic, I need a new engine

Im absolutely gutted. Only got the car 6 months ago and it cost me 2000. Now, the issue I have is that I took it to a mechanic about 2 months ago because the oil was burning at a rapid rate. He said he looked and couldn't see any issues with it. And oday, this?? Turns out he has put a camera inside the engine and has diagnosed the piston issue, but didn't think to do this when I took the car to him 2 months ago! I'm pretty livid, to be fair

What should I do? How much am I looking at for a new engine? Is it worth it? Should I sell it as spares/repairs? I'm at a bit of a loss, to be honest, because I'm massively out of pocket, and have no car

It's a 2004 1.8 Ford Mondeo LX Petrol

Thanks

Last edited by shanks84; 14-10-2010 at 8:04 PM.
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# 2
geordie_taxi
Old 14-10-2010, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanks84 View Post
Apparently 2 of the pistons are stuck, and according to the mechanic, I need a new engine
i would get a second opinion as if 2 pistons had seized then the engine wont start let alone run and if it did run it would sound like a bag of bolts
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# 3
johnnyroper
Old 14-10-2010, 7:57 PM
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Sounds like sticking oil control rings to me I have had good success previously with putting liquid decoke fluid down bores overnight and the sucking some through a vac hose once up and running.
If that fails then it does not need new engine just a strip down and new rings or a second hand lump. Whatever happens it will not cost 2 grand
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# 4
shanks84
Old 14-10-2010, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geordie_taxi View Post
i would get a second opinion as if 2 pistons had seized then the engine wont start let alone run and if it did run it would sound like a bag of bolts
To be honest, I thought that, but I might has mis-quoted him. I'll get more info tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyroper View Post
Sounds like sticking oil control rings to me I have had good success previously with putting liquid decoke fluid down bores overnight and the sucking some through a vac hose once up and running.
If that fails then it does not need new engine just a strip down and new rings or a second hand lump. Whatever happens it will not cost 2 grand
He has tried putting some sort of 'additive' through and that's resulted in an oil change, but still failed on emissions. Could this be what you are describing? He didn't, however, leave it overnight, as he'd done it within about half an hour of suggesting it! How much am I looking at to get it fixed if that is what it is? Is it worth it?
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# 5
Rossy.
Old 14-10-2010, 8:41 PM
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PMSL

A mechanic that states 2 pistons are siezed yet observes the engine running whilst doing an emmisions test should not be in charge of spanners. period.

If 2 pistons were siezed i can promise you 110% that the engine would not fire up at all.. However if the pistons were damaged, i.e worn piston rings or the piston crown was damaged then it would run although it would sound horrendous.

Does the engine sound rough? Does the car shake when the engine is running? Does it rev horribly?

If it sounds nomal to you then quite piossibly this guy is having you on and has seen you coming,. Take the car elsewhere if it runs as this guy sounds a complete moron
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# 6
Strider590
Old 14-10-2010, 9:45 PM
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^^ I reckon it's more likely the lambda sensor or EGR or one of many common problems.... Can't diagnose a piston or piston ring failure from an emissions test!

Seized pistons would result in MASSIVE damage and it definitely would not run.... The con rods would shear from the piston sending chunks of the piston down into the crankshaft, which would then fire these chunks around puncturing holes in the sump and destroying the crank case. How do I know? seen it happen!

Seriously, anything mechanical would result in the car running like a bag of nails!
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# 7
shanks84
Old 14-10-2010, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossy. View Post
PMSL

A mechanic that states 2 pistons are siezed yet observes the engine running whilst doing an emmisions test should not be in charge of spanners. period.

If 2 pistons were siezed i can promise you 110% that the engine would not fire up at all.. However if the pistons were damaged, i.e worn piston rings or the piston crown was damaged then it would run although it would sound horrendous.

Does the engine sound rough? Does the car shake when the engine is running? Does it rev horribly?

If it sounds nomal to you then quite piossibly this guy is having you on and has seen you coming,. Take the car elsewhere if it runs as this guy sounds a complete moron
No, none of those! Really starting to think the guy doesn't really know what he's on about, or he is rying to con me. Either way, I think I'll take it elsewhere for a second opinion
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# 8
shanks84
Old 14-10-2010, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider590 View Post
^^ I reckon it's more likely the lambda sensor or EGR or one of many common problems.... Can't diagnose a piston or piston ring failure from an emissions test!

Seized pistons would result in MASSIVE damage and it definitely would not run.... The con rods would shear from the piston sending chunks of the piston down into the crankshaft, which would then fire these chunks around puncturing holes in the sump and destroying the crank case. How do I know? seen it happen!

Seriously, anything mechanical would result in the car running like a bag of nails!
He say's he's put a camera in the engine and has diagnosed it that way. But it's been running fine, apart from the oil burning rapidly
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# 9
sassy-one
Old 14-10-2010, 11:22 PM
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If you do need a replacement engine, it won't cost you a arm and a leg (2000)

Get a second hand engine, one off Ebay, try and find a seller selling one that is still in the car that you can see/hear running and check it's not misfiring/head gasket failure
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# 10
johnnyroper
Old 15-10-2010, 2:17 AM
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As I said above high oil use and fail emissions will not be seized pistons it will most likely be sticking oil control rings this will not result in noises or shaking of engine as some on here seem to think.
It will actually result in some oil bypassing said sticking ring and being burnt off,the cat and lambda may be clogged with oily crap adding to the problem,cylinders could also be glazed.
Try getting another garage to have a look before doing anything
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forgotmyname
Old 15-10-2010, 3:14 AM
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Try www.talkford.com (used to be fordmondeo.org) 1.8 petrol very very common for the
oil control rings on the piston to stick.

You can see what others did to cure it and how much they spent.
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# 12
paddedjohn
Old 15-10-2010, 5:31 AM
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As above, the rings have gone, strip and rebuild is the cheapest option. (a second hand engine may have similar probs)
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# 13
johnnyroper
Old 15-10-2010, 6:37 AM
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Thanks forgotmyname and Paddedjohn finally some users who actually saw in the original post using oil and emissions fault and put 2 and 2 together rather than waffling on about cannot be seized pistons.
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# 14
cyclonebri1
Old 15-10-2010, 8:18 AM
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Piston rings stuck not pistons, any one thinking the other way should not be posting advice on this subject
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Last edited by cyclonebri1; 15-10-2010 at 6:23 PM.
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# 15
Strider590
Old 15-10-2010, 8:28 AM
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^^ Well that's what I thought, as I said it'd not be running at all.
Piston rings would suggest improper servicing, wrong engine oil and overheating..... Better to get another engine as this one (even with the piston rings changed) is going to be utterly knackered
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# 16
johnnyroper
Old 15-10-2010, 1:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider590 View Post
^^ Well that's what I thought, as I said it'd not be running at all.
Piston rings would suggest improper servicing, wrong engine oil and overheating..... Better to get another engine as this one (even with the piston rings changed) is going to be utterly knackered

If that is what you thought why not make the stuck ring suggestion in your original post?

The rings on the 1.8 ford are notorious for this problem and does not mean engine is totally knackered. I have had this problem a few times in the past once on a calibra turbo once on a 1.4 corsa and once on a 1.3 fiesta as you say cause most likely lack of oil change, but the engines were recoverable and did not need changing.liquid decoke overnight sorted the ones I had but if that does not work I would look at costs to strip and repair versus changing for another engine to see which is more cost effective route to go down.
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# 17
johnnyroper
Old 15-10-2010, 3:05 PM
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Another thing that can achieve good results freeing sticky oil control rings is using ATF oil in a similar way to liquid decoke through a vac hose.and then dropping about 15ml down plug hole overnight to penetrate in to the ring seats. Be warned it will smoke like mad for a while as it burns of the oil
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# 18
cyclonebri1
Old 15-10-2010, 6:30 PM
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I have to add that the biggest culprit in the gooed up ring (matron please) debate is constant cold running. IE, the engine being used on short a to b journeys without the oportunity to "clear it's throat".
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Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

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# 19
sassy-one
Old 15-10-2010, 7:35 PM
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Got to say, I have seen Ford Mondeo's 1.8 LX on a 2003-2004 plate for 1500 on Gumtree!
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# 20
shanks84
Old 15-10-2010, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyroper View Post
As I said above high oil use and fail emissions will not be seized pistons it will most likely be sticking oil control rings this will not result in noises or shaking of engine as some on here seem to think.
It will actually result in some oil bypassing said sticking ring and being burnt off,the cat and lambda may be clogged with oily crap adding to the problem,cylinders could also be glazed.
Try getting another garage to have a look before doing anything
Yep, this is exactly what the mechanic said. He ran some oil system cleaner through (it was STP - cant exactly remember what it was), changed the oil and filter, and that didnt resolve it

An update. Since I picked it up today and drove it a short distance, it's now juddering when I accelerate? I'm guessing that this is related

Going to take it to another garage tomorrow down the road to get a second opinion, but I'm not at all optimistic
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