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stokesley
Posts: 219 Forumite
I'll try and keep this as brief as possible, but would be most grateful if anyone (particularly someone with the expertise of Richard Webster...) could help.
We have recently sold our property subject to contract. There is a boundary separating it from the adjoining property, established in about 1976 when next door was built, erected initially by the owner of the land upon which next door's property sits, with agreements in the conveyance between the then owners of our property and next door about maintenance - this initially took the form of a hedge, and has now been replaced in exactly the same place by a fence, paid for jointly between us and our neighbours.
In 1994, the house next door was sold and the property registered for the first time with the Land Registry. We are in the process of selling ours, and have discovered that our land is unregistered, so the usual legals started and uncovered that the Land Registry Title for next door shows the boundary running through our study and dining room:eek: (built in about 1988). We have tried reasoning with the Land Registry, as our Deeds show the boundary in the correct place, our neighbours agree that the boundary is where the fence now is, as it has been since 1976, but to no avail. We have been told we have to get our neighbours to get the whole thing changed legally, and that they have to obtain their mortgage company's agreement to the change. We are expected to foot the resulting bills, according to our solicitor.
We believe that this error may have occurred when the land next door was first registered in 1994, but have no way of finding out definitely from whence the whole mess occurred. However, it does appear that because our neighbours registered their property first, that their title map is being treated as gospel, and we are being forced to foot legal bills and possibly lose our purchaser due to no fault of our own.
Any help hugely appreciated...
We have recently sold our property subject to contract. There is a boundary separating it from the adjoining property, established in about 1976 when next door was built, erected initially by the owner of the land upon which next door's property sits, with agreements in the conveyance between the then owners of our property and next door about maintenance - this initially took the form of a hedge, and has now been replaced in exactly the same place by a fence, paid for jointly between us and our neighbours.
In 1994, the house next door was sold and the property registered for the first time with the Land Registry. We are in the process of selling ours, and have discovered that our land is unregistered, so the usual legals started and uncovered that the Land Registry Title for next door shows the boundary running through our study and dining room:eek: (built in about 1988). We have tried reasoning with the Land Registry, as our Deeds show the boundary in the correct place, our neighbours agree that the boundary is where the fence now is, as it has been since 1976, but to no avail. We have been told we have to get our neighbours to get the whole thing changed legally, and that they have to obtain their mortgage company's agreement to the change. We are expected to foot the resulting bills, according to our solicitor.
We believe that this error may have occurred when the land next door was first registered in 1994, but have no way of finding out definitely from whence the whole mess occurred. However, it does appear that because our neighbours registered their property first, that their title map is being treated as gospel, and we are being forced to foot legal bills and possibly lose our purchaser due to no fault of our own.
Any help hugely appreciated...
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Comments
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Firstly, you need both Conveyances/Transfers on the original sale of the property ie. the one from the original Developer when he sold off the plots in parts. Your neighbour's, if they don't have a copy, can be downloaded from the Land Registry website or requested from them in writing if this is not available electronically. The plans on both transfers, ie for your property and the neighbouring property, should be checked against each other.
As long as there is no Memorandum of sale off endorsed on any of the original documents to your property ( which you should now guard like goldust!) and the boundaries are shown as you both believe them to be, then it would certainly appear as though the Land Registry made an error when first registering the property in 1994 and it is then up to the Land Registry to rectify their error.0 -
If you have an unregistered title to the whole area and can show you have been in possession (as evidently you have) then a voluntary application for first registration of your title should result in the LR saying that part is already registered - you then point out that you know that but you have been in possession since 1976 and the neighbours are ready to concede the point. The LR sends their surveyor out and they serve a notice on the neighbours requiring them to show why their title should not be altered to exclude the area in question. If the neighbours either agree or don't reply within a period - 3-4 weeks I think then the LR remove the area from their title and put it in yours.
I have just had this done over an outside WC. I will try to simplify story - Mr X owns two adjoining terraced houses in the centre of a small town. Been in same ownership since 1892 when both houses were conveyed by the same conveyance to Mr X's predecessors. This conveyance has a plan showing the two houses and outbuildings coloured red and the rest of the land in pink, with fence lines shown so that the two plots are basically oblongs beside each other with a few outbuildings in the back of each. I'll call them 55 & 57 High Street.
Mr X sells 55 in 1958 but the conveyance does not contain a plan. The property changes hands and eventually at some point after compulsory registration came in in that area the title got registered and as there was no plan for 55 the LR just assumed the oblong area including the house and back garden was 55 and registered it.
57 remained unregistered and earlier this year my client came to buy it. I sent her a copy of the 1892 plan showing both houses. She asked if the outside WC was included. This was a small outbuilding coloured on the 1892 plan but apparently within the back garden of 55 against the boundary wall with 57 but only accessible from 57. We got a copy of 55's title and found that the WC had been included wrongly in it.
The seller's solicitors applied for registration of the title to the WC. The LR surveyor came out and looked at it and agreed it looked pretty obvious that there had been a mistake. The LR served notices on the owners of 55 and they either conceded the point or did not reply and the seller was duly registered with title just to the WC which he proceeded to transfer to my client together with the still unregistered title to the rest of the property.
As far as I can see the only real problem would be if the neighbour tried to find some legal reason why it was not a mistake. If it can be shown to be a mistake then the LR may have to pay compensation for the costs of putting it right. In my case the seller was stuck with it largely because his family who had owned the property when 55 was sold should have made sure there was a plan which excluded the WC so I don't think he would have got any compensation.RICHARD WEBSTER
As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.0 -
Very many thanks to you both for your replies and my sincere apologies for the delay in thanking you; I've just returned from holiday.
As suggested, and Richard's confirmation that this is the correct course of action is most welcome news, our solicitor has applied to register our house which has precipitated the offer of a visit from a Land Registry Surveyor, which we are awaiting. Fingers crossed that we can avoid a further 3 to 4 weeks delay while they contact our neighbours, but agree this may be inevitable.
Very many thanks again for taking the time and trouble to reply:T.0 -
Just in case anyone ever has a similar problem, today it has finally been resolved in exactly the way that Richard suggested, and we now have the correct boundary drawn on the Land Registry documents.
My sincere thanks again to Richard, and my sincere apologies to everyone else for the utterly boring subject...
PS Just in case of any confusion, my beloved was logged in and I didn't notice, so posted under her username.
Stokesley0 -
Good to see it has been sorted!RICHARD WEBSTER
As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.0
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