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Payday loan company has cleared my account, what do I do?
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# 1
Sazzle-cuz
Old 15-06-2010, 10:09 AM
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Default Payday loan company has cleared my account, what do I do?

I (foolishly) took out a payday loan with THL Direct for 255 last year and failed to make the repayments as I fell faster and faster in to debt, I wrote to them to advise them of this and they were understanding enough and accepted my proposal to repay just 25 a month, I did this for 3 months and then fell behind again. On pay day this month I found 1015.00 had been debited from my account. THL Direct had debited my card however the card they debited was a new card which THL had no details of. My suspicion is that another payday loan company that I (yet again foolishly) applied to gave THL my new debit card details as they declined me and said due to info we have recieved from another payday lender we are unable to offer you a loan.

I have contacted them and asked them to provide me with a signed agreement stating I authorised them to debit that particular card but they just keep sending my the loan agreement which has no debit card details on it. Surely this isn't legal???

What do I do now? I have no money in my account as they have helped themselves to my entire months wages.

HELP.
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# 2
iolanthe07
Old 15-06-2010, 10:25 AM
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What a mess! You really don't want to fall behind when paying these pay day loan type debts - they are merciless. The problem is that in the terms and conditions you signed there is probably a clause in the small print about them having the implied right to take anything from you they can get hold of if you default, as you have done, even on the easier terms they agreed.

Apart from pleading with them, I'm not sure there is much you can do. Have a look at the terms and conditions of the loan and see if they have broken them - if they have you may want to see a solicitor. Many will give the first consultation free.
"Debt is the slavery of the free" (Publilius Syrus, First Century BC)
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# 3
AMILLIONDOLLARS
Old 15-06-2010, 10:40 AM
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I don't know if they are governed under FOS rules, but I am sure that a financial institution cannot leave you destitute when trying to recover a debt. You best give them a call to find out your rights.

Here's their website
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/


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# 4
molerat
Old 15-06-2010, 10:54 AM
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If the debit card was on the same account they would have used the old number as you will have signed a continuous authorisation and that would remain valid, the bank would have to honour it. Cancelling a card will not stop continuous authorisations.
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# 5
ILW
Old 15-06-2010, 11:00 AM
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A new card will still be linked to the same bank account. Just stopping the old card does not end a payment authority. You will find that your agreement does allow them do take the money if you do not adhere to the terms of the agreement. I would get onto CAB and try to speak to a debt councillor as things are only going to get worse.
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# 6
Sazzle-cuz
Old 15-06-2010, 1:21 PM
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Thanks for your comments, I have made a call to the FOS and am waiting to hear back. So if THL Direct were legally entitled to take 1015 from my account (albeit somewhat unethically), can they leave me in a situtation where I am unable to pay my rent, council tax and even eat? Also I have no idea where the sum of 1015 comes from as the original debt was just 255, should they provide some form of statement clarifying charges and interest?? I'm a fool I know but I'm tearing my hair out! I do not know what to do.
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# 7
ajones28
Old 15-06-2010, 3:41 PM
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SORRY THIS IS A REAL LONG ONE BUT WANTED TO EXPLAIN MY CIRCUMSTANCES SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT LEAD ME TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION.
I had a similar problem with Payday Loan Companies. I had 3 ongoing loans through different companies. I'd either been rolling the loans over or paying them off, then letting myself down weeks later by having another loan, when I got short again.
Unfortunately, I lost my job though, only 4 weeks before Christmas As you can imagine this was a complete nightmare. I had Christmas (2 Teenage kids size Christmas, that is) to worry about, together with the worry that the prospect of me finding another job quickly being very low (especially as it was November 2009 and we were still in the grips of the Recession). I was only owed 2 weeks pay in 2 weeks time, and did not know if I would be able to claim any benefits as I had been sacked (whole other story). I contacted the Loan companies (in plenty of time) by e-mail to advise I couldn't pay them all of their money when I got paid in Mid December as I was no longer employed. I offered each company the chance of discussing a Payment Plan with me and enquired how to set something up. I received acknowledgement e-mails from all 3 companies. No mention was made of the Payment Plan though, so I e-mailed them all again. On doing this I recevied e-mails from 2 of them advising me that I could roll over the loan if I wished. (Surely this should not have been offered to me as I was no longer working and they were basically offering me more credit on my old details of being in 'Full Time Employment', knowing I had no income to pay it back anyway). I e-mailed both advising I did not want to roll over my loan. I was simply asking if the account could be frozen, so that no more charges could be applied to the account, (for such things as letters being sent etc.) as long as I agreed to pay a set amount each month, and stuck by that. Hearing nothing for 3 days and now being only 2 days off the payment day on all 3 loans, I was now starting to really panic. I sent numerous e-mails and called numerous times and was simply passed from pillar to post. To simplify and put into Layman terms the extent of the calls were 'Please pay up then get lost, you are no longer of any use to us as you cannot have a loan because you are unemployed. We don't need to go out of our way to be nice to you any more as you cannot earn us any commission now'.
As for the 3rd company they had only sent that automated reply to my first e-mail and nothing more, no matter how many times I e-mailed them. I tried to call them constantly, but could not get an answer. Eventually at 4:45 on the evening before the money was due, I finally got a very unsympathetic advisor on the phone, who thought nothing of making very heavy sighing noises every time I paused. The girl eventually replied 'Well you did take out the loan though.' This became her favourite quote throughout the call. I agree wholeheartedly with what she said but all I wanted to do was to set up a Payment Plan, but nobody wanted to know. I eventually had to ask for a Manager/ Supervisor. I was advised she was not available as she was in a meeting!!! I requested a call back reiterating the importance of making the Manager aware of the urgency on this matter. The website stated they closed at 6pm, so we had just under 1 hour and 15 minutes left before they closed. Anyway cutting a very long story short they did not call back. I tried to call them back again at 5:30pm, but could not get a reply at all. 6pm came and went and I realised I was wasting my time.
As for the other 2 companies, neither would budge. I was simply advised over the phone and by e-mail that I would have to pay the full amount back (They weren't even mentioning the Rollover now). As a last resort, I spoke to my bank and they advised me that Debit Card payments could not be stopped and therefore I would need to speak to the companies again and get them to agree not to apply for the money as there was no other way around it. They explained that the CVV (3 numbers on back of card) was the authorisation to take the money. If they have this number then you must have given it to them, therefore they are legally entitled to take the money you agreed with them from your bank account. Also they advised that as I did legally owe the company the money and as they hadn't actually agreed any new payment plan the original contract I had with them was legally binding, therefore they hadn't actually done anything wrong in the eyes of the law, by taking the 200 from my account.
As you can guess by now, I did not manage to get anywhere in relation to sorting things out with the companies and as you can perhaps guess I woke up on payday to find my bank account 200 exactly light. It was the 3rd company (who had made no contact), who had taken it. As you can imagine I was absolutely fuming. Tried to contact company, but usual problems in getting an answer. Sent e-mail after e-mail. Eventually received a reply (surprisingly or unsurprisingly actually, this was an advisors direct e-mail address, so I was able to communicate straight back to her - now that they had my money they were willing to talk. This e-mail basically said 'Look you owed us the money, we took it back SIMPLE!!! (Although perhaps not as direct as that) They said they knew they had received the 1st e-mail but that they had no record of any other contact with me - SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! So no e-mails, no angry phone call with request for Manager callback. (I requested they listen into calls around time I was on call. They advised me only a small percentage of calls are actually recorded, and as I had no idea of which advisor I had spoken to - apparently nobody had been into my account in the last 2 months - they could not search for the Call.) No matter what I said to this lady about proof of e-mails etc. she just was not willing to help. I also asked her about the amount of 200, when I didn't even owe 200. I had borrowed 150, the costs were 37.50 (25 per 100), so what was the other 12.50 for. The advisor told me it was an administration fee-when I asked her what this was for and where/ when had I been informed about this, I was told all information was in the Terms & Conditions; (I searched through later and there was no mention of an admin fee anywhere of 12.50). I went into the Bank this time instead of ringing the call Centre and luckily got an advisor who was an experienced advisor. I explained what had happened and also explained there were 2 more companies who might do the same thing.me they hadn't actually broken any laws. Therefore by ignoring my e-mails there had been no new
At this point I was obviously upset about the 200 (this was over a third of what had been in my bank so did not leave me with much for Christmas and to live on, but I was also concerned about the other 2 companies. They had not taken anything out that day but they sometimes did do it a day later. I decided to go into the bank, as I was in town that afternoon, and I wondered if they could give me any different advice from their call centre. Luckily I managed to get an advisor who I know had been there for years and was very experienced. She explained first of all that unfortunately there was no way I could get the 200 back that had already been taken, as that had already been authorised to be taken from my account. She did say though that as for the other companies, there was a way of stopping them taking any more money (even though I had taken the other couple of hundred out by now to protect it from being taken). She told me to cancel my current Debit card. She told me to just ring the Lost/ Stolen line and tell them I had lost it. Obviously you couldn't give them the real reason for wanting to cancel the card because they may be unwilling to cancel it because of this. So you are perhaps best to say it had been lost. A new one would then be sent out with different numbers on the front and also a different CVV altogether as well. Therefore when the company apply for any money, they put in the old Debit card details and get an 'Authorisation Declined' message. Obviously you will have the inconvenience of no Debit card for a few days but you are generally only talking an average of 3 - 5 working days with most banks. But surely that is better than losing all of your money if in the same situation as me. It is not that I was even trying to avoid paying the money back I simply wanted to agree a payment plan. I have since had many more problems with the other 2 companies I still owe money to (as I still am not working), and am now receiving Debt Collector letters with further charges on there each time. I am in discussion with them as I have told them both that I am not willing to pay these charges as I asked for a Paymant Plan from the start, and was ignored. They want their little (or rather big in most cases!) piece of the pie though and aren't willing to work for nothing so will not back down on the charges. I won't bore you with that though.
Another question I wanted to ask you by the way Sazzle-cuz, I do not understand why you have had to pay back 1015 if you only borrowed 255. I have been dealing with Payday Loan companies for a couple of years now and know what most are like. There is no way there can be such high interest/ charges for that amount surely. Have you asked THL about this. Also speak to them and the other Payday Loan company who you applied to and who you think supplied THL with your Debit card details because it is illegal for any company to keep your Debit card details on record without your prior permission. It is also illegal for any company to have given out your personal details - if this is the case. Your Bank are at fault though if they paid out on a request from a cancelled Debit or Credit Card. Without the correct CVV number there can be no authorisation to take any money from your bank account. Don't get your hopes up off course, but I am quite sure that somebody is at fault here and that this money should never have been paid out in the first place. You are entitled to a refund either from THL themselves as they have get hold of your Debit card details illegally, or the bank for paying out on a Debit Card request without the correct CVV and Card number. I wouldn't hold your breath if THL have got to give you a refund though, as these Payday Loan companies are well known for being dodgy and for fighting dirty.
FIGHT THEM THOUGH. DON'T GIVE UP!!!

Last edited by ajones28; 15-06-2010 at 3:43 PM.
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# 8
woody01
Old 15-06-2010, 3:53 PM
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Sorry but the above post is incorrect.
If you have authorised payment, then thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazzle-cuz View Post
I (foolishly) took out a payday loan with THL Direct for 255 last year and failed to make the repayments as I fell faster and faster in to debt, I wrote to them to advise them of this and they were understanding enough and accepted my proposal to repay just 25 a month, I did this for 3 months and then fell behind again. On pay day this month I found 1015.00 had been debited from my account. THL Direct had debited my card however the card they debited was a new card which THL had no details of. My suspicion is that another payday loan company that I (yet again foolishly) applied to gave THL my new debit card details as they declined me and said due to info we have recieved from another payday lender we are unable to offer you a loan.

I have contacted them and asked them to provide me with a signed agreement stating I authorised them to debit that particular card but they just keep sending my the loan agreement which has no debit card details on it. Surely this isn't legal???

What do I do now? I have no money in my account as they have helped themselves to my entire months wages.

HELP.
Your debit card has nothing to do with it.
People seem to think (incorrectly), that if you cancel the card they cannot access your account.
They can though, as in the agreement, you authorised them to do it.

With wanting to sound too hard, they haven't helped themselves to anything. You said they could do this, and as you are a bad debtor in their eyes, they are just taking what is theirs.

I doubt if there is anything you can do.

Last edited by woody01; 15-06-2010 at 3:58 PM.
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# 9
Sazzle-cuz
Old 15-06-2010, 4:28 PM
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Well I think they have helped themselves to far more than was owed, but I take your point on board.

Thanks Ajones28 I sympathise with your situation, I hope you are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I did tell the bank back in April that my card was lost and they cancelled it immediatley. No money was ever taken from my account using the cancelled card, in fact the bank have even asked me to provide a new specimen signature as they recieved a request for a standing order to be set up in my name with a signature on it the bore absolutely no resembleance to mine.
However when I contacted the bank on payday and asked where 1015 had gone I told them that I had not passed my debit card details to this company and that it was fradulantly used. They said the company had been trying to take the money for the last few days but as there was no money in the account it was declined, obviously up until the day I got paid. My suspicion is that SWIFTMONEY passed my details to THL as they are the only company who I applied for a loan with and stupidly gave them the details of my new debit card. They then did a U turn and refused my application due to info from another lender.

My Term and conditions state:
"If you fail to repay your debt to us, we have the authority to use information provided to us by other
payday loan companies, in order to contact you or to take payment.
This information includes the use of your personal and employment contact details, all information
supplied in applications for a payday loan, your bank account and card details, including the use of your
card details to obtain payment, current financial information such as debt management negotiations,
Bankruptcy etc. This does not include sensitive data such as sexual orientation and race.
When applying for a Payday loan with us, you are consenting to your details being released to other
Payday Loan companies, for Fraud prevention, application and affordability assessment and non-payment
of debt. This information includes the use of your personal and employment contact details, any
information supplied in applications for a payday loan, bank account and card details, including the use
of your card details to obtain payment, current financial information such as debt management negotiations,
Bankruptcy etc"

Basically THL took out two lump sums of 507.50, I don't know if they just kept going until they couldn't get any more money out of my account or what! I have asked them how they came to this figure and they said I was being charged at the rate of 1% per day.

I'm a stupid person who is kicking myself but surely there must be something I can do. I can't afford to pay my rent and I can't sleep at night. I feel sick and the worst thing is I'm to embarrassed to tell anyone wo I'm carry this huge worry around and I don't know what to do.
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# 10
AMILLIONDOLLARS
Old 15-06-2010, 5:04 PM
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Seems to me that Swiftmoney and THL could be part of the same company, so they swopped information on you.

That could be their way around how they got your new details. The only way to find out for sure would be to do a check via companies house, which will cost you, I think the fee is between 2-5.

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# 11
iolanthe07
Old 15-06-2010, 8:40 PM
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At the end of the day 1000 or so is not much. Can you ask your mum and dad or a sympathetic relative to help you out until you get yourself straight? It's only money and it's not worth losing sleep over.
"Debt is the slavery of the free" (Publilius Syrus, First Century BC)
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# 12
mitchaa
Old 15-06-2010, 9:10 PM
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Surely a lesson learned?

The debt has been paid back, you can rest easy now. Do not ever use payday loans in future. You're clear of them now, dont get sucked in again.

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# 13
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Old 16-06-2010, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazzle-cuz View Post
Thanks for your comments, I have made a call to the FOS and am waiting to hear back. So if THL Direct were legally entitled to take 1015 from my account (albeit somewhat unethically), can they leave me in a situtation where I am unable to pay my rent, council tax and even eat? Also I have no idea where the sum of 1015 comes from as the original debt was just 255, should they provide some form of statement clarifying charges and interest?? I'm a fool I know but I'm tearing my hair out! I do not know what to do.
In the mean time i'd open a different bank account with another bank and have my wages paid into a different bank. That way it can't happen again.
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# 14
pippitypip
Old 16-06-2010, 10:56 AM
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I'm so sorry to say, that the money they have taken would probably include ridiculous charges etc for the defaults. They can probably legitimise the 1015 one way or another. I really doubt there is any case for a refund either I'm afraid.

I hope the FOS have some good advice, if there is any way to reclaim and re-set up a debt management plan then they'll be able to let you know, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Do you have any kind of contingency plan, bank of Mum and Dad?

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# 15
hoggums
Old 16-06-2010, 4:11 PM
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Tut tut,

you weren't paying off one payday loan and were going to another company for another one. AND you had over a grand sitting in one of your accounts...
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# 16
pippitypip
Old 16-06-2010, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoggums View Post
Tut tut,

you weren't paying off one payday loan and were going to another company for another one. AND you had over a grand sitting in one of your accounts...
It doesn't seem to be over a grand just sitting in an account - that would be wages earmarked for rent and bills no doubt.

Judging without any helpful advice is really UNhelpful, esp when someone is scared and isn't even talking to friends or family about this - just MSE.

These kinds of queries are better off on the DFW board, less judgement, more help.

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# 17
Sazzle-cuz
Old 17-06-2010, 9:37 AM
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I think you'll find if all I get is a grand a month wages it doesn't exactly make me the worlds highest earner, especially when my rent is 420, then you have gas, electric, water, tv license, council tax, need I go on. Thanks for your encouragement.....
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Kimitatsu
Old 17-06-2010, 9:56 AM
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The reason that you will owe them that much money is that they will have just kept rolling the loan over again and again so that you are paying interest on interest. Typically these companies can be anywhere between 200% and 2000% interest a year, you should have a rate in your loan agreement.

You can ask them for a breakdown but I would imagine that the loan agreement you have is correct and is legally binding but you can take it down to your local CAB to ensure that.
Free/impartial debt advice: Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) | National Debtline | Find your local CAB
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# 19
whichwhydoIturn
Old 17-06-2010, 10:07 AM
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i have used payday loan companies got to say, never again, at the time, great ! bad credit, need the cash, suddenly there is a loan company to help you out .lovely, didnt think of the interest, took 4 months to pay 500 plus interest,Now when i am skint which is often, i come to this site, read about people mananging and their hope,support etc, & eat beans until the drought has passed, and it does.I dont smoke, drive or drink very often,so, luckier than most,i feel these companies almost take delight over the power they rein cos they know people like me have little or no option for credit.hope that OP gets through this
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# 20
zartub
Old 17-06-2010, 10:13 AM
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Default dont worry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazzle-cuz View Post
I think you'll find if all I get is a grand a month wages it doesn't exactly make me the worlds highest earner, especially when my rent is 420, then you have gas, electric, water, tv license, council tax, need I go on. Thanks for your encouragement.....

you always get one ( some ) prat on here that really has no idear what it is really like to be living on low income ( like its only 1000 don't worry ) & get a friend or relative to lend you it ?????? some people really have no clue really !
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