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Should the UK be a part of the European Union?
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# 1
Former MSE Debs
Old 30-11-2012, 2:14 PM
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Default Should the UK be a part of the European Union?

Poll started 4 Dec 2012

Prime Minister David Cameron has hinted there may be a referendum on this hot topic, though he hasn't said when. However, it wouldn't be an in/out vote, instead it'd be whether the UK should renegotiate its position in Europe, so it is less integrated within the EU.

How would you vote, in an in/out and 'renegotiation' vote?






Did you vote? Why did you pick that option? Are you surprised at the results so far? Have your say below. To see the results from last time, click this

Last edited by MSE Guy; 04-12-2012 at 6:26 PM.
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# 2
stevemcol
Old 04-12-2012, 11:52 AM
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IMHO the EU should be a free trade area, period. On that basis, yes, we should be part of it. I can't see any justification or need for federalisation. However, I don't see why the other EU members should be expected to treat the UK as a special case so I guess 'out' is a possible option. I've no doubt though that this decision would be damaging to the UK. The policiticians should never have been able to overstep the original concepts of the EEC without further referenda.
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# 3
Bezmonduk
Old 04-12-2012, 4:28 PM
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Didn't the PM promise a referendum on this before he was elected?
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# 4
landsker
Old 04-12-2012, 4:55 PM
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A straightforward IN/OUT vote, not a fudged compromise designed to confuse the public, is absolutely necessary,, sooner, rather than later.
I urge you all to support/join/donate to UKIP, the only straightforward party to advance this view.
UKIP have a full policy on most current issue, see here:-
http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies

We are NOT a one policy party, nor are we racists, closet or otherwise!

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# 5
Ken68
Old 04-12-2012, 6:18 PM
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I think it is too late, too much invstment and can't see member states giving us an easy ride if we chose to leave.
Makes sense for them to push us out before that.
DON'T BUY BRITISH will be the slogan in the EU.
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# 6
Gus360
Old 04-12-2012, 8:49 PM
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Cool EU is vital to our trade.

Most of our trade is within the EU and our large companies have EU partners. The recent budget problems need to be addressed but I can not understand people who want to leave the EU.
Have they traveled in Europe? Many countries have better trains, roads, trams and have a better lifestyle. Not everything is perfect of course but we should be playing a bigger part at the heart of the EU to our benefit.
I would say to doubters, drive around Europe and I think you will change your mind.
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# 7
Goflyfalco
Old 06-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus360 View Post
Most of our trade is within the EU and our large companies have EU partners. The recent budget problems need to be addressed but I can not understand people who want to leave the EU.
Have they traveled in Europe? Many countries have better trains, roads, trams and have a better lifestyle. Not everything is perfect of course but we should be playing a bigger part at the heart of the EU to our benefit.
I would say to doubters, drive around Europe and I think you will change your mind.
Yes I have travelled and worked in Europe. No I want no part of the EU thanks, I prefer to be able to vote for who makes my laws, not have them appointed as with Herman van Rumpuy and Jose Manuel Barosso.
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# 8
XRAT
Old 06-12-2012, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus360 View Post
Many countries have better trains, roads, trams and have a better lifestyle. Not everything is perfect of course but we should be playing a bigger part at the heart of the EU to our benefit.
I would say to doubters, drive around Europe and I think you will change your mind.
I think you'll find that most nay-sayers believe you, and that's why they want out!
They don't want to be working harder and longer so that the rest of Europe can have nice things. Just as they don't want to pay M.P.'s and M.E.P.'s large salaries AND subsidise their food, lodgings, lifestyle.., only to be fleeced by them.

If the U.K. left the E.U. would all the Europeans have to leave? And would that mean we would hit our emmissions targets because the population was smaller? Would other E.U. states then have larger populations and miss their targets? Would there be more houses available here, so we didn't need to build on the green-belt? Would there be less demand so house prices fell.., would that mean we would have more to spend on other things.., which would drive the economy?

Or would it mean that house prices fell meaning the banks would have less assets, therefore they'd collapse, the government would raise less tax.., and there would be less in the trough for their snouts?
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# 9
georgemcghie
Old 06-12-2012, 1:46 AM
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Default Should the UK be a part of the European Union?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken68 View Post
I think it is too late, too much invstment and can't see member states giving us an easy ride if we chose to leave.
Makes sense for them to push us out before that.
DON'T BUY BRITISH will be the slogan in the EU.
It is a two way street, remember that we buy more from Europe than we sell to them. There would be threats etc. as we contribute net £8 billion. Are the CEO's of BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Fiat, Peugeot/Citroen, Renault, Fiat, Bosch, Siemens etc. etc. going to say okay we will give up that business or lose a large percentage because of higher tariffs? It is also worth remembering that we cannot negotiate a trade agreement with anyone unless it is done by the EU for the EU.

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# 10
janiebquick
Old 04-12-2012, 9:51 PM
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I don't understand the question. The UK is part of the EU. We had a referendum in the 1970s when we voted to stay in. You can't keep having referendums just because someone diidn't like the result of the last one.
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# 11
stevemcol
Old 05-12-2012, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janiebquick View Post
I don't understand the question. The UK is part of the EU. We had a referendum in the 1970s when we voted to stay in. You can't keep having referendums just because someone diidn't like the result of the last one.
Have you read the terms of the 1970s referendum? Do you think it in anyway represents the current face of the EU? We've been nibbled to death by ducks since then with treaty after treaty.
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# 12
georgemcghie
Old 06-12-2012, 1:59 AM
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Default Should the UK be a part of the European Union?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcol View Post
Have you read the terms of the 1970s referendum? Do you think it in anyway represents the current face of the EU? We've been nibbled to death by ducks since then with treaty after treaty.
Absolutely spot on. It is worth remembering that when there was a referendum in 1975 we were told 'don't worry folks, it's only a trading club'. We were clearly and comprehensively conned.
Now that it is turning out to be more of a EUSSR it is time for a vote. No one under the age of 55 has had the democratic right to vote on our future. If you don't do something about it how are you going to explain that to your grand kids when they ask 'what the hell happened'? Why did you give our independence away? Was it yours to give away in the first place!

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# 13
Goflyfalco
Old 06-12-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janiebquick View Post
I don't understand the question. The UK is part of the EU. We had a referendum in the 1970s when we voted to stay in. You can't keep having referendums just because someone diidn't like the result of the last one.
The UK did not have a referendum in the 70s on the EU. That referendum was whether we wanted to remain part of a Common Market, or free trade association.

There were assurances at the time that no British sovereignty would be lost as a result, which have not only proved false but we now know that Edward Heath lied about it. He knew full well that the plan was "Ever closer union", in other words progress towards a United States of Europe.

In any case, do we want to be part of such a corrupt, wasteful, undemocratic organisation? An organisation founded on lies and deceipt? An organisation that set out to achieve its aims by keeping those aims from the people? Sorry, count me out.
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# 14
YANA
Old 06-12-2012, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janiebquick View Post
I don't understand the question. The UK is part of the EU. We had a referendum in the 1970s when we voted to stay in. You can't keep having referendums just because someone diidn't like the result of the last one.
This is absolutely incorrect. We voted for a Common Market and not a Federal Europe, as those in power have subsequently admitted was the real agenda all the time. We were lied to then and we are being lied to now.
Day in day out I see nothing but harm and cost from the EU.
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# 15
Heng Leng
Old 04-12-2012, 10:45 PM
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Not this old chestnut again; it's a non-story as the UK needs the EU.

Perhaps rUK could have a Swiss style relationship with the EU after Scottish Independence, with Scotland remaining a member post 2014?

Rump UK will have less influence than Italy and will be no longer be one of the big 3. So the position might be a moot point.
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# 16
Nick1973
Old 05-12-2012, 2:49 PM
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I have just voted No to both questions on the EU. I don't believe the EU at least in its current form is working. Its not rocket science to see that everybody in the European Union has suffered or is suffering as a result of Austerity. And people forget, while we are all being fed EU Propaganda about 'austerity measures' and 'The Euro' far darker laws and powers are constantly being created through the EU. It is not all about money. There are some very good reasons why we should not be a part of the EU for this very reason. If we become full EU members then you cannot expect to even think about renegotiating. If we became full EU members, then we are looking at something not far short of the start of a World dictatorship. It is definitely not safe. Police (European Police Force) would become more like an army and our laws would be so tight you would not be able to move without being arrested. If you think some of the laws, rules and regulations are difficult now, think what it would be like under the shadow of an EU government.

We have to keep our country out of the EU, no matter what the consequences. There are plenty of other countries to trade with outside of the EU, some very wealthy and some producing extremely high quality goods at low prices. And don't ever forget the power of the Commonwealth. So we wouldn't be short of a bob or two. In fact the reality is that the EU would be the ones ending up short. As long as we stay out, then the EU will find it difficult to survive, they know this which is why they want us in. But make no mistake, if we become full members there really is no turning back, we would have to sit it out and hope that someday it all failed and we could go back to our 'normal' lives. Life wouldn't be as we currently know it under the EU, and there would be no UK Parliament, or if there was it would be simply to feed us laws which could have been passed to us directly from the EU. By the way, we wouldn't have a vote on many laws, if not all laws through our Parliament. They would just come into force.

And also running a business and being self employed would cost much much more than it does now. We moan now, but setting up a Ltd company would become extremely expensive, and taxes would go far beyond what they are now. And of course we would most likely earn less and pay more (even more that we are having to put up with under our own government). We would be poorer as a whole.

I don't believe we should renegotiate either, I believe that renegotiation would be like saying 'well we don't want to be a full member, but go on then, we'll accept a few things from you being as its you'. I think it should be 'no ifs, no buts, I don't want to hear anymore, goodbye EU'.

The trade issue is a poor excuse for becoming full members. You'd have to be blind not to see that there are plenty of other trade routes, and the EU would have to deal with us at some point once they had got over themselves. But obviously it would be on our terms, not theirs.

Last edited by Nick1973; 05-12-2012 at 2:55 PM.
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# 17
runaroundpauper
Old 05-12-2012, 11:35 AM
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Big trade is India china America when America bounces back that is start trade links again with Australia New Zealand if they will have us back ,we would need to put our foot down with china on human rights don't think we have the clout though ,Europe is a blundering wreck ,also mass eviction policy for eu citizens that do not contribute as soon as our eu treaty ripped up get them out anyone that benefits through cheap labour in china and makes a massive business profit in this country should be charged a china tax on there profit which should be split between uk government and charities to help the world poor
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# 18
g0recki
Old 05-12-2012, 4:12 PM
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I've never had my say over Oxfordshire's membership of England, or England's membership of the UK, or the UK's membership of the EU.

Why does only the last one of these merit a(nother) referendum?

Anyway, if we were to have a referendum and the result was to leave, it would trigger a recession that the public voted for.

The EU is far from perfect. It is too big and far too opaque. But there's lots of problems with the UK too - that doesn't mean the best solution is for different bits of the country to leave.
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# 19
John L M
Old 26-12-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g0recki View Post
I've never had my say over Oxfordshire's membership of England, or England's membership of the UK, or the UK's membership of the EU.

Why does only the last one of these merit a(nother) referendum?
Now... lets see... Oxfordshire has been been a part of England since, well, since there was an england....
Quote:
The end of Roman rule in Britain enabled the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain, which is often regarded as the origin of England and the English people. The Anglo-Saxons, a collection of various Germanic peoples, established several kingdoms that became the primary powers in what is now England and parts of southern Scotland.[3] They introduced the Old English language, which displaced the previous British language. The Anglo-Saxons warred with British successor states in Wales, Cornwall, and the Hen Ogledd (Old North; the Brythonic-speaking parts of northern England and southern Scotland), as well as with each other. Raids by the Vikings were frequent after about AD 800, and the Norsemen took control of large parts of what is now England. During this period several rulers attempted to unite the various Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, an effort that led to the emergence of the Kingdom of England by the 10th century.
England has been part of the UK since the act of Union.
Quote:
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland [nb 5] (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK, the U.K. or Britain) is a sovereign state located off the north-western coast of continental Europe. The country includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK that shares a land border with another sovereign state—the Republic of Ireland.[nb 6] Apart from this land border the UK is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, the North Sea, the English Channel and the Irish Sea.

The history of the United Kingdom as a unified sovereign state began with the political union of the kingdoms of England, which included Wales, and Scotland. On the new kingdom, the historian Simon Schama said, "What began as a hostile merger would end in a full partnership in the most powerful going concern in the world... it was one of the most astonishing transformations in European history."[1] A further Act of Union in 1800 added the Kingdom of Ireland to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
The UK has been part of the European Union since 1973
Quote:
The EU traces its origins from the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), formed by the Inner Six countries in 1951 and 1958 respectively.
Your question asks why not have a referendum on Oxfordshire's membership of England, well in that context membership is simply the wrong word England 'owns' Oxfordshire like France 'owns' Normandy. Oxfordshire could theoretically leave England if it wanted perhaps you could ask your school teacher when you are doing statistics if you could do some kind of polling to see what people think? Just in your school or in the wider community?
As for England leaving the UK there is a political party campaigning for just that...

Quote:
The English Democrats are an English federalist political party, committed to the formation of a devolved English Parliament with at least the same powers as those granted to the Scottish Parliament. Whilst not supporting English Independence, the English Democrats consider themselves the English equivalent of the Scottish National Party in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales.[3] Their motto is "Not left, not right, just English".
I must say I don't hold out much hope for them. But the comparison with Scotland is a good one since there is to be a referendum on it remaining part of the sovereign state of the UK

Now, to answer your question fully, Oxfordshire is a county in England not a country in England and terms such as membership are, as such, meaningless. England is a country which is part of a sovereign state, and country in its own right, namely the United Kingdom. The UK is a member of the EU which is a jumped up wannabe state which our traitorous leaders have lied to us for over half a century claiming that our sovereignty was not going to be taken away by joining.

As for questions regarding referendums the answer is simple a great many people think that they were either; lied to, or tricked into joining, or that the very nature of the EU has changed, or that we would just be better off out of the EU. As the EU isn't a country and holds no great spiritual connection for the people of the UK in the way that most sane people simply regard Oxfordshire as part and parcel of England and are spiritually linked to it and all the other counties of England.

A similar debate rages in Scotland regarding it membership of the UK. Referendums are a great way of democracies settling such questions although when people hold such opposing views they tend to go on and on and are not often settled with a single referendum, I doubt that the SNP will give up and melt away if they loose their referendum, you can look to Canada and Quebec for a good example of a series of ongoing membership referendums. Still at least they are getting the opportunity of a exercising their democratic right, that's a lot more than we are getting!

Well I must say its great to see a little lad such as yourself asking such probing questions but are you sure that this it the place for it? I am always happy to help but perhaps you could look at the CBBC site for answers next time?

All quotes Wikipeadia (other than your own)

Last edited by John L M; 26-12-2012 at 2:55 PM. Reason: typos
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# 20
davidxhobbs
Old 06-12-2012, 9:45 AM
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Default Two Question Vote gives Confused Answer

Having two questions gives a skewed result. I want us out of the EU and don't wish to renegotiate.
If my desire not to renegotiate is counted on its own (rather than as part of a pair of questions), then it could appear to a biased observer that it is a vote to stay in the EU without renegotiation!
Two question referenda will produce muddled results.
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