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[MSE Archna]

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's "Is ICICI an Indian Bank… do xenophobic overtones hurt its custom?" Blog.

Click reply to discuss below.

[Paul_Herring]

do xenophobic overtones hurt its custom?

No. Its poor customer service, when something goes wrong, does.

[beer tins]

There could be a number of reasons other than what Martin mentioned. For example, if the parent bank is percieved to be in trouble, people would prefer to go elsewhere. Your savings may be safe, but they may be tied up for months without you being able to access them.

[earwig1928]

Originally Posted by Paul_Herring

No. Its poor customer service, when something goes wrong, does.

Absolutely agree. I was *very* relieved when I finally extracted my savings from them. Poor systems, poor customer service, and most worryingly, poor attitude to security.

So maybe the ICICI link got fewer clicks because folk are checking the forum before clicking links.

Or not. Sadly, it's probably more down to the word "Indian", even if it shouldn't be.

[dancingfairy]

Perhaps it's because Rothschild is a private bank and very famous. There could be a snob factor about it. I always thought Rothschild was only for rich or famous people - so maybe that has something to do with it and the fact it's a private bank - it has always sounded so glamorous and so upmarket to me- no wonder people are clamouring to open accounts there.
Not that that's how I choose my bank accounts but people can be swayed by names and image.
It's a bit like supermarket food and the perceived quality of the premium ranges when it's got fancy packing and a higher price and better marketing - it's the power of the brand isn't it - you know that the product is not always better (or not that much better to make it worth all the extra money) but you are led to believe it is.
Well that's my theory anyway and if it was combined with people being dubious about ICICI because of it's foreigness (either because people were xenophobic or perhaps because they didn't understand the protection scheme and the fact it is a uk subsiduary) then that would explain things.
dancingfairy

[ajbaker]

No, it is not xenophobic to state the bank is a subsidiary of an Indian bank. You must allow the public to make informed decisions. If a member of public decides to be xenophobic and disregard this bank PURELY because they are a subsidiary of an Indian bank, they are free to do so.

I would like to see you continue to state this.

I would however prefer to see more transparency in the media about the hierarchy of companies. I'm not suggesting you mention the Spanish parent of the Abbey in every sentence, but knowing company x is owned by company y would enable many people to make far better informed decisions.

[JCB_Digger]

Perhaps some are still smarting after Kaupthing and Icesave - I know my better half and I are trying to stick to UK based banks (even though we know we're covered to the same £50k), it still doesn't mean that I want to go through all that again...

[esuhl]

Originally Posted by ajbaker

You must allow the public to make informed decisions.

I think Martin's point is that the public very rarely make informed decisions. Most people make opinions based on emotional associations rather than information and logic.

Why else do chemists sell premium-branded drugs, when identical "cheapo" brand ones are available for a fraction of the price?

And in any case, why would the public be prevented from making an informed decision if Martin were to omit the "Indian bank" description? Martin never claimed to publish every known fact about the bank, and I doubt many people would critisise him for that fact - it's simply unfeasible.

My mother has also failed to create a webpage advising people that ICICI's parent company is Indian. Has she prevented anyone from making an informed decision?

Just playing devil's advocate here... :-)

[light]

Originally Posted by earwig1928

Absolutely agree. I was *very* relieved when I finally extracted my savings from them. Poor systems, poor customer service, and most worryingly, poor attitude to security.

So maybe the ICICI link got fewer clicks because folk are checking the forum before clicking links.

Or not. Sadly, it's probably more down to the word "Indian", even if it shouldn't be.

When was the last time you used there services ? I opened a fixed rate bond 2 weeks ago no problems at all. There log in system is similar to ING.

I do agree on one thing there websites needs a overhaul !!

[sabretoothtigger]

India isnt perceived as a rich or stable country. Not sure I'd call it xenophobic exactly more a case of general ignorance as to how international banks operate, in this case their origins dont matter a bit (below 50k)

Theres probably no mention of india when you buy a Jaguar but it seems a similar thing to me and image is everything when buying a car so it'd totally ruin their advertising probably.
Its just how people think in rough images instead of logically assessing investing by percentage influence or whatever.

Rothschild sounds like a brand of jewellery or something but it could be teetering on the brink of collapse for all I know or care to investigate

[Paul_Herring]

Originally Posted by light

When was the last time you used there services ?

Personally? Not long enough to make me even consider going back.

[Fudge1977]

With the push to "buy British", maybe you could just highlight British owned banks when referencing them.

I'm buying british where I can do which isn't xenophobic or whatever, it just keeps people in jobs which is good for our economy. Yes, it can cost me more sometimes but I guess it's just a moral dilemma....

[td_007]

Give me any bank providing decent rates of interest AND the 50K guarantee and I will go for it. No problems with easily rejecting British banks or otherwise who look to squeeze the customers to maximize their own profits.
If people are led by xenophobia then they are the loosers not just with banks, but also with talent, capacity, capability etc. etc.

[esuhl]

Originally Posted by Fudge1977

With the push to "buy British", maybe you could just highlight British owned banks when referencing them.

I'm buying british where I can do which isn't xenophobic or whatever, it just keeps people in jobs which is good for our economy.

I haven't heard of any push to buy British, but (assuming everything else is equal) wouldn't it be better to support the Indian economy where there is more wide-spread poverty than in the relatively affluent UK?

And why do you choose to "buy British", rather than buying London-ish, or English or European?

Just curious... :-)

[Fudge1977]

Originally Posted by esuhl

I haven't heard of any push to buy British,

There's been stuff on the tv for months about buying locally and buying British. If you buy something produced in Britain then there's ultimately a British job on the line in the production stage. If more people have jobs, more people have money to spend etc etc.

So, If our money is in Bristish-owned institutions then that's supporting people employed in this country (in branches etc).

Originally Posted by esuhl

wouldn't it be better to support the Indian economy where there is more wide-spread poverty than in the relatively affluent UK?

Nothing to disagree with. Donate to a charity.

Originally Posted by esuhl

And why do you choose to "buy British", rather than buying London-ish, or English or European?

Just curious... :-)

Don't know what you are on about but see above.

[DJFearRoss]

i'm off Indian origin myself and even I would think twice.
Yes, I understand the Protection, but Banks in the UK are bad enough, trust me, trying to resolve disputes and problems with Indian Banks would be 100 times as worse.

I'm surprised at the question myself, for once British people are choosing British products over foreign products. You should be proud.

[MSE Martin]

Originally Posted by Fudge1977

With the push to "buy British", maybe you could just highlight British owned banks when referencing them.

I'm buying british where I can do which isn't xenophobic or whatever, it just keeps people in jobs which is good for our economy. Yes, it can cost me more sometimes but I guess it's just a moral dilemma....

But what is a British Bank?

Is Abbey or A&L or Bradford & Bingley - owned by santander
Is HSBC - floated in the UK but ultimately the "Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation" so Chinese
Is the Egg card - owned by Citibank
Is Clydesdale Bank - part of the National Australian Banking Corporation

The notion of national identity is a tough one for international financial companies.

In many ways I am minded to only refer to a banks nationality when it does not have the full UK protection - otherwise distinctions are in many ways arbitrary.

Martin

[mikki-b]

Well said Martin. My thoughts exactly.
Its not like none of the 'British' banks haven't gone belly up recently.
I have money in ICICI, not hordes, but them I have savings spread all over, to get good rates where I can but not having all money tied up in one place.
I did have money in Icesave as well, and in future I would consider putting money in any bank as long as the UK protection scheme covered it and there were no other major factors at that time.
Well it comes to other goods and services I do try to buy local and certainly british well I can.

[RobertoMoir]

Originally Posted by esuhl

I haven't heard of any push to buy British, but (assuming everything else is equal) wouldn't it be better to support the Indian economy where there is more wide-spread poverty than in the relatively affluent UK?

Well if someone is British and proud of their country, why not buy British where it makes sense for them? It's just just another way of supporting your own economy, which I think does make sense to some degree.

As for fighting poverty, I believe in that too, I try to donate to charity 12 times a year, roughly once a month though sometimes I donate to two or three things in one month then skip a few months to make up for it. At the end of the day though, as you mention poverty, Charity begins at home and all that. I donate to causes worldwide, not just ones in the UK, but I'm very well aware that there are plenty of cases of poverty in the UK that are deserving of help.

I'm not just talking about the "by the time I paid for me fags and booze there's barely enough child support left to feed the kids" brigade, I'm talking about real genuine cases of hardship, people sleeping rough, people who really don't know where their kids next meal is coming from, etc. It's present in the UK. When I used to work as a bailiff I saw it and it broke my heart at times to see just how much some people struggled, and perhaps it wouldn't harm us to spend a little more time attending to the beam in our eyes, as a country, before tending to the mote in the eyes of others.

Originally Posted by esuhl

And why do you choose to "buy British", rather than buying London-ish, or English or European?

Just curious... :-)

I think there's a difference between "buying British" and "not buying anything from foreigners because I hate foreigners". It isn't, or need not at least, be a racist thing, which often seems to be the implication when people talk about taking pride in this country.

I do try to support local business where I can, too. There comes a point where it's just too expensive, but I am prepared to pay a slight premium for the convenience and service of buying locally, whether very locally to my town or locally to my country on the global scale.

As for English vs. British, can't speak for others but my mother was English and my father was Scottish... I've got no problem with being proud of both parts of my heritage or with seeing myself as "British".

[IGC]

I think mentining ICICI's Indian origins is and was unnecessary, but the concerns about its finances wasn't as you went on to qualify it by pointing out the UK protection.

BTW I've banked with ICICI for a year or so and haven't had any probs - good interest rates, clear statements, what appears to be more secure logging in (using a virtual keyboard) than (e.g.) my Halifax accounts, and polite efficient staff when I had a query.