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[GRRRATPARKER]

Wow! It's amazing how similar everyone's stories are. It's as if the companies have discovered a set formula and are playing them out perfectly. I was lucky enough to discover it was a scam before I took the job, but it's damn shame others (such as jiranimo) didn't. It would be good if everyone emailed the jobsites where they found the jobs to try and get them removed. I mean just now I went on a new jobsite to find some local jobs and these fraudulent firms have spammed this new site as well. It's so frustrating!

And don't be afraid to name and shame the firms and people who interviewed you! It is so important that you don't allow other people fall into the same trap you did!

[DeeRam]

Originally Posted by Loopy Loo 85

My husband has just started working for this company and have gone through everything that you have all explained that happened at the interview stage. I can completely understand why people believe that it is a scam as I am a strong believer that if it sounds to good to be true it is!!! My husband took the job as we looked at it we have nothing to lose, he has not had to invest any money so I cant not see how it is a scam?? It is a bit unrealistic and its not the best job in the world as its commission only but when he makes a sale he does get paid for it!

Please could someone explain what the scam is, as I have a young family and am very concerned about this??

The reason it is a scam is: you do not do the job advertised. In fact, they do not mention it is 100% commission until you have received the paper to sign, after your trial day.
Most, if not all people are asked to travel so far, and work hours so long (praying that maybe the next person will buy their product so they get a few quid) that they cannot possibly be making even the minimum wage in any other job.

Why do these companies change their names so often? I heard three names on my first "interview" alone. In a building that looked like it was about to fall apart.

Now, the reason they keep changing their names? Because they end up on sites like this, or on a blacklist. As soon as their company shows one of these sites on the first page of google, or any other search engine, they change their names.

If you had a business and you wanted to hire someone. Would you not tell them upfront what they would be doing? Mentioning things about your business, which you would be quite proud over. Telling them what they would be selling. The wage?

You see, if I had a business... i would want a prospective employee to know about what we did. How we did it, when we did it. Why we did it and for how much (and what type of salary, in fact. that bit would be in the job advert). What the hours were, the track record of the company, mention some of the clients. They would find out if there was a dresscode, and if so, what is it like? What WE as a company could offer them. Benefits? Retirement packages? Possibilities to advance in the company?
Heck. I would make sure my company had a website that in its layout and contents said: This is a serious company, which spent more than a packet of bubblegum on a 5 year old to design it.

If you have a young family, i would not take this job. If you accepted it, i would recommend not doing it. You may very well end up working 10+ hours a day (not including travel to and from work) for maybe £100 a week (without factoring in travel expenses), if that. You may end up finding out that not all your sales counted to your salary even though they went through. Or that your commission is far lower than expected.

I have written this before in this thread, but.. in the two days i was interviewed, i saw many many people walk through the doors. Many ended up on the same trial day (which i refused once my mentor let slip it was door to door). If this was a legit job, the company would have 60 in management per 1 in sales after 10 months. There is no way they will have any form of churn of people that large in one single company.

A company which in your case was most likely like mine. One really well decorated (newly and badly painted) room with two receptionists taking calls and buzzing people in. (seeing them unplug the router in order to plug a mobile phone charger in was priceless) Then in the back, the adjoining rooms used for interviews being very very bare. no computers. no files. Maybe a chair looking like it came from a second hand shop selling used IKEA furniture. No phones apart from the ones at reception.

If you were to go to management, where would you work? there are no offices (or in my case at least) set up in that building (in my case at least).

I would be really careful if i was you. This isnt just too good to be true, it isnt true at all. You will not be making 16-20 grand a year. You will be unlikely to make even one grand a month. But you will do the work of at least two people, with silly hours.

If you ask your husband, the paper for the second interview had him number things from 1-8, sign his name and that is it. It will probably have mentioned something along the lines of him being self employed. (and i would be surprised if the company doing the interviews in the same office were the same one listed on the paper)

I am not that knowledgeable on brittish employment law, but at home at least, being self employed is bad. Really bad. If i were self employed at home, i would need to file my own taxes as if i were a company. I would also need to put money into retirement funds, and keep my own work ensurance up to date at all times. In fact - the company that hired me as self employed would have to do no more than pay me. They would not be liable if i had an accident while working, i would. I would have no sick days, no way to be at home with a sick child without losing money. No form of security in knowing that since i work, if i were to suddenly lose it - i can still pay my mortgage. No, i would be required to keep a pretty good crystal ball at hand and save money for just that event.

This is a pretty long thread (and post) now. (i am sorry for the wall of text) You do not have to take our words for what happened to us, or what we feel it is.
But please, be careful.

edit: i apologise if i sound short, it is just the way i speak and write. These people promise the stars, but you would be lucky if they were made out of cardboard

[Gingernutty]

I was made redundant in September and I trawl through the job sites every day. There are a long list of these "marketing" companies - a very long list

TH Nationwide
KPJ Enterpries
Life Style Advertising
JPK Advertising
JPK Marketing
Cobra
Corsica Marketing
Granton Marketing
Cydcor
Innovage
PerDM
Financial Training Academy
SRM Marketing
Pro Sales Direct
IPG Imports
AMM Direct
KMS Promotions Ltd
Krishna Worldwide Ltd
Navitas Organisation Ltd
The Klub Advertising Services Ltd
Powerhouse Ltd
MRD Corporation Ltd,
Progressive Global Training Ltd,
Paragon Events Direct Ltd,
Maximum Dynamic Ltd,
TML Promotions Ltd,
Kudos Promotions Ltd,
D Commerce Organisation Ltd,
Pinnacle Promotions Ltd,
SOGO Marketing Ltd,
JACC Marketing Ltd,
Celica Marketing Ltd,
Bandeira Marketing Ltd,
Fosters Marketing Ltd
Heaton Marketing Ltd
ETM Marketing Ltd
Bohemiam Marketing Ltd
Montana Marketing Ltd
XS Worldwide Marketing Ltd
P&D Marketing Ltd
Code Marketing Ltd
Eclectic Marketing Ltd
Red Square Direct Ltd
Mosco Marketing Ltd
EA Worldwide Acquisitions Ltd
London Marketing Services Ltd
Red Planet Ltd
Innovation Marketing Ltd
Creation Marketing Ltd
G Force Marketing Ltd
Tuscan Marketing Ltd
Heyes Client Services Ltd
Touch One Advertising Ltd
HelpMeGo.To Ltd
CSC Marketing Ltd
Paramount Force Promotions Ltd
Primus UK Ltd
Oracle Advertising Ltd
SRJ Marketing Ltd
Karma Marketing Solutions Ltd
Coulson Corporation Ltd
Stride Marketing Ltd
The Marketing Machine UK Ltd
Endeva Advertising Ltd
Fastlane Enterprises Ltd
The Premier Organisation Ltd
Unique Organisation Ltd
Excelsior Marketing Solutions Ltd
KMH Organisation Ltd
The Saturn Organisation Ltd
Cooper Advertising Ltd
Magnum Marketing Ltd
The Fresh Organisation Ltd
Fourways Marketing Ltd
Zenith Force Promotions Ltd
Chilli Corporation Ltd

All of them advertise in the same way and all of them do not mention up front that the so called "jobs" are self employed, commission only, door to door, sales jobs.

As I spend so much time at home I get them coming to my door. So far I've had "Help the Homeless", "PDSA", "Red Cross", "NSPCC" and "Amnesty". That doesn't include the poor saps who stand around in the middle of town accosting passers by. Chuggers. Charity muggers.

The irritating thing is that these companies misrepresent themselves to the various job search websites, pay the fees and then put in multiple ads. I hate putting in a search string and then having to scroll down the list of this rubbish before I can find a genuine job to look at.

Scum like this will crawl out of the woodwork in recessionary times like this and we've all got to be wary. At best it's a waste of time, at worst you could lose out big time.

[Nicklt]

In my local town centre there seems to be the same people "Representing" (on different days) Amnesty International, RSPCA, Oxfam, Brainwave etc (different charities) i wouldn't be surprised if they had been hooked in by one of these advertising companies, they all seem to be around to very late 8pm plus, and i really don't like the way they try to get you too sign up. One of the charitied they "Represent" is Brainwave which is a charity for children with mental illness and children who have had accidents which resulted in brain damage. Sound like a good charity but the way the guy tried to get us to sign up was very rude and almost wrong in my eyes, my 2 year old daughter was with me and he said "How would you feel if your daughter had an accident and go brain damage" this kind of thing really gets me, pushy selling and he was incredibly pushy. We dont have much money and i told him that i couldnt afford the £8 a month and that he should give me a leaflet and i would contact the charity myself if i wanted to donate, but what i found weird was that he had no leaflets or info he could give me on the charity only a form to sign people up on, which to me just proves they are only there to get sign ups so they can get commision so dont really care about the charity.

They all seem to follow people down the high street hounding them, once one of them would not leave a women alone and in the end he said to her "ah come on dont be such a tight !!!! it's only £2 a week", at the point the women went absolutely mad and the guy and started swearing and everything the guy looked stunned, but at the same time i could see why she did, he had followed her for a good 100 metres and wouldnt leave her alone.

They all seem to be the same kind of people aswell, Yound, trendy student types and presume the easiest to get hooked on these things due to their high debts and lack of jobs, i feel sorry for them but at the same time some of them really get on my nerves how pushy they can be. I've only ever signed up with one of these things and that was for oxfam years ago but that was because the women was really nice and didnt push at all.

[paula.paula13]

Thank you all for posting such useful information. My friend is an overseas student, just arrived in the UK. She e-mailed me today about The Klub as she had a call yesterday asking for her to attend an interview for an admin position. She sent me a link to their web site http://www.theklub.com-a.googlepages.com/home2252
as she needed me to explain how to get there - she isn't familiar with the city.

Out of interest I had a look and noticed that the role seemed to be a door to door sales role. Amongst their info on the site was the link above - that's what enabled me to prove to myself that The Klub of Shannon Street, Leeds are the same outfit that all you guys have been writing about.

I've advised my friend to stay well away from them!

[jaxi]

Well I work for Bradford Marketing and I must say none of this rings true - I applied through Reed.co.uk for a job that was 100% commission based - it was on the info about the company, right in the middle under the PAYMENT header, and two days later got a phone call asking me when I had the time for an observation day. I told them I wouldn't have time until the Friday and they said great, what time etc... turned up, there was one woman at the desk, not particularly beautiful... had an interview with the assistant manager that lasted about a half hour, asked me about my background, experience, management roles etc... told me i would hear the next day if i was successful... got a call next afternoon saying i had been, can i come for a third interview with Jake, the manager. Turned up at the same building, sat down with him, had a talk about what i wanted out of life - told him i just wanted something a bit different to working call centres and that door to door sales would be a great change of pace. He told me that people had the chance to be promoted depending on their performance over the months/years and that normally two or three people are promoted a year. So, I took the job and learned how to do the door to door sales, and about 5 months later I was promoted to Accounts Manager with the HR department, was put on a course to learn how to do everything, and now I'm up for a promotion to Assistant Manager, and it's been just over a year. Everyone who joins is told the job is commission only until you reach a higher level, and they were completely up front with everything from the word go. I'm not just saying this because I work for them - I'm just giving an honest account of what happened to me. If they are up front then it's not a scam, and I'm living proof that things can happen in those companies. It's not for some people - great. But others who dont mind the months of door to door, the opportunity to move up is there all the time. It just depends how much effort you're willing to put into your job. I have a feeling a lot of the people on this site didn't get the job, because no one has said what it's like to work for them, so the conspiracy theories are coming out. Of course, a lot of companies these days work under umbrella companies - Carphone Warehouse is an umbrella company - they have about five or six companies with different names throughout the UK - so what's the difference? Personally I love the job and the people I work with, and I have a great time.



In fact here's the advert I saw:


CUSTOMER SERVICE RELATED EXPERIENCE WANTED AT NEW MARKETING FIRM IN MANCHESTER
Opportunities are available in Manchester for people who are looking to put their customer service skills to practical use. If you are looking for a rewarding challenge and are excited about rapid advancement, we’d love to hear from you! Our office is growing and our clients want us to increase representation to help them increase market share across the Greater Manchester area. We also aim to expand into 3 nearby markets by the end of the year, so advancement opportunities will be available!
Entry-Level Openings Involve:
• Customer Service & Client Relations (Field & Office Based)
• Marketing & Sales Presentations (Field Based)


these tell you that its out on the streets - field based ie. not in the office.


• Developing Time Management Skills
• Internal and External Communications
Rapid Advancement Opportunities Involve:
• All Responsibilities & Skills Listed Above
• Team Leadership & On-site Training (Field & Office Based)
• Application Tracking & Reporting (Office Based)
• Recruitment & Educational Workshops (Office Based)
• Additional Daily Business Operations (Office Based)
Full product training is provided, so people with limited experience will be considered. All applicants must be at least 18 years of age and able to work both independently and with a team. Strong communications skills and a professional image are required since we target potential customers where they work, live and shop as a means of increasing market share for our client. Earnings are based strictly on results, not hours, so candidates should also possess a strong work ethic and a ‘whatever it takes’ attitude! All openings begin at an Entry-Level stage with potential for rapid advancement based on your results, not seniority.




Here it tells you that it's targetting customers, that it's all commission, and that you have to have a whatever it takes attitude to make sure you make the most money you can. It also tells you that you start at the lowest place on the chain and that rapid advancement is based completely on your results.





SEND US YOUR CV TODAY FOR IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION!
If your preliminary interview is successful, you will be invited back to shadow a Representative in the field for a full day to gain an understanding of the responsibilities involved. You will not be authorized to participate in any sales and therefore not entitled to compensation. We will look to make a final decision when you return to the office. This is very helpful in determining if the opening is right for you!



I honestly can't see where other people are getting the idea that it's not all stated up front - because there's the proof that it is. Methinks most of the people here just haven't got the job (people are sent home if they're not listening, not taking notes, not showing an interest in the job on the observation day) so methinks most of the people in this thread are promoting the fear of these companies by not being honest and not telling the whole story.

[inmypocketnottheirs]

How can you have an Accounts Manager role in HR?

[Enfieldian]

Originally Posted by jaxi

Entry-Level Openings Involve:
• Customer Service & Client Relations (Field & Office Based)
• Marketing & Sales Presentations (Field Based)


these tell you that its out on the streets - field based ie. not in the office.

What absolute twaddle.

I am a "Field Based Account Manager" and I meet with my clients in their offices not shopping centres or the street!

Exactly what sort of "sales presentations" do you give on someone's doorstep by the way?

[jujuplaya33]

thanks guys i guess u saved me time! read wht i got! they got a female rep now! claire beware!
Dear ****** ,
Your preliminary interview is scheduled for *****2009 at 3:30 PM.
On arrival at our location, you will be presented a brief application form. Please bring a copy of your CV to attach to support your application form. Your preliminary interview will last for approximately 30 minutes.
During your interview you will be asked to provide an insight into your previous roles and responsibilities and how those experiences could benefit our company. You will also be given an out line of the history of our company, the services we provide for our clients and where you could fit in to our goals for the future. Dress code is smart business.
We look forward to meeting you in person. If you unable to attend your interview please don’t hesitate to contact us and we will endeavour to provide an alternate date. Below are directions.
We are situated in the Cotton Exchange (Bixteth Street entrance) in suite 303 on the 3rd floor. There is pay and display parking available on Bixteth Street, also parking is available on Pall Mall.
Upon arrival to room ask to see Claire and you will be provided will all necessary paperwork.
Kind regards,
Claire Montgomery
Business Advertising Ltd
HR Department
0151-227-1880

[jonboy69]

Originally Posted by jaxi

Well I work for Bradford Marketing and I must say none of this rings true - I applied through Reed.co.uk for a job that was 100% commission based - it was on the info about the company, right in the middle under the PAYMENT header, and two days later got a phone call asking me when I had the time for an observation day. I told them I wouldn't have time until the Friday and they said great, what time etc... turned up, there was one woman at the desk, not particularly beautiful... had an interview with the assistant manager that lasted about a half hour, asked me about my background, experience, management roles etc... told me i would hear the next day if i was successful... got a call next afternoon saying i had been, can i come for a third interview with Jake, the manager. Turned up at the same building, sat down with him, had a talk about what i wanted out of life - told him i just wanted something a bit different to working call centres and that door to door sales would be a great change of pace. He told me that people had the chance to be promoted depending on their performance over the months/years and that normally two or three people are promoted a year. So, I took the job and learned how to do the door to door sales, and about 5 months later I was promoted to Accounts Manager with the HR department, was put on a course to learn how to do everything, and now I'm up for a promotion to Assistant Manager, and it's been just over a year. Everyone who joins is told the job is commission only until you reach a higher level, and they were completely up front with everything from the word go. I'm not just saying this because I work for them - I'm just giving an honest account of what happened to me. If they are up front then it's not a scam, and I'm living proof that things can happen in those companies. It's not for some people - great. But others who dont mind the months of door to door, the opportunity to move up is there all the time. It just depends how much effort you're willing to put into your job. I have a feeling a lot of the people on this site didn't get the job, because no one has said what it's like to work for them, so the conspiracy theories are coming out. Of course, a lot of companies these days work under umbrella companies - Carphone Warehouse is an umbrella company - they have about five or six companies with different names throughout the UK - so what's the difference? Personally I love the job and the people I work with, and I have a great time.



In fact here's the advert I saw:


CUSTOMER SERVICE RELATED EXPERIENCE WANTED AT NEW MARKETING FIRM IN MANCHESTER
Opportunities are available in Manchester for people who are looking to put their customer service skills to practical use. If you are looking for a rewarding challenge and are excited about rapid advancement, we’d love to hear from you! Our office is growing and our clients want us to increase representation to help them increase market share across the Greater Manchester area. We also aim to expand into 3 nearby markets by the end of the year, so advancement opportunities will be available!
Entry-Level Openings Involve:
• Customer Service & Client Relations (Field & Office Based)
• Marketing & Sales Presentations (Field Based)


these tell you that its out on the streets - field based ie. not in the office.


• Developing Time Management Skills
• Internal and External Communications
Rapid Advancement Opportunities Involve:
• All Responsibilities & Skills Listed Above
• Team Leadership & On-site Training (Field & Office Based)
• Application Tracking & Reporting (Office Based)
• Recruitment & Educational Workshops (Office Based)
• Additional Daily Business Operations (Office Based)
Full product training is provided, so people with limited experience will be considered. All applicants must be at least 18 years of age and able to work both independently and with a team. Strong communications skills and a professional image are required since we target potential customers where they work, live and shop as a means of increasing market share for our client. Earnings are based strictly on results, not hours, so candidates should also possess a strong work ethic and a ‘whatever it takes’ attitude! All openings begin at an Entry-Level stage with potential for rapid advancement based on your results, not seniority.




Here it tells you that it's targetting customers, that it's all commission, and that you have to have a whatever it takes attitude to make sure you make the most money you can. It also tells you that you start at the lowest place on the chain and that rapid advancement is based completely on your results.





SEND US YOUR CV TODAY FOR IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION!
If your preliminary interview is successful, you will be invited back to shadow a Representative in the field for a full day to gain an understanding of the responsibilities involved. You will not be authorized to participate in any sales and therefore not entitled to compensation. We will look to make a final decision when you return to the office. This is very helpful in determining if the opening is right for you!



I honestly can't see where other people are getting the idea that it's not all stated up front - because there's the proof that it is. Methinks most of the people here just haven't got the job (people are sent home if they're not listening, not taking notes, not showing an interest in the job on the observation day) so methinks most of the people in this thread are promoting the fear of these companies by not being honest and not telling the whole story.

The fact that you still work for Jake confirms to all of us living in the real world that your judgement is very much clouded.

I worked for a colleague of Jakes called Kevin O'neill in Liverpool for a long time, I know for a fact, that advert, (that you and Jake have posted on here), is nothing like the adverts that pollute every recruitment website on the net.

If you put out that advert, you wouldn't get half the amount of applications for 1st round interview. (That wouldn't do your law of averages much good would it Jakey!)

Dont lie! you are not an account manager of the HR dept!

You dont have a HR dept because you cant afford to fund anything so sophisticated! Jake does most of the recruiting on his own or passes it off to an idiot who thinks they are going to get promoted if they kiss his ar*e!

You have a crap office and you have had to move because people are starting to get wise to your un-ethical recruitment techniques.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you are being this upfront with people who are applying for this job?

If you have changed your ways, then I take my hat off to you, as now you wont be wasting the time of hundreds of job seekers who are looking for a good solid career only to find out that its a self employed door to door sales job.

Having said that, methinks that you are still advertising the old PerDM / DSMAX way by lying to people and not answering their questions in an honest straightforward manor.

Whoever you are jaxi, I'm guessing that you are different to all of the other candidates that have worked for this company?

Everyone else was weak, failures, waste of spaces, had a poor work ethic, didnt believe in the system, were a poor example of the 5 and 8 steps, bla bla bla bla bla!

The thing is, people like Jake Bradford and Kevin O'neill have worked for this organisation for a very long time from a young age. They dont know any different. They have no experience in the real world.

Their world is a very lonely place to be.

I challenge you to be honest with yourself, take a step back and take a long hard look at yourself and the people you work with. Ask yourself why you are lying to your friends and family about what you do for a living and how much you earn???


I have said this before and il say it again, one day you will quit the business!!! You are like everyone else that has worked under it.

I dont doubt that at one point, when the idea first moved to the UK, there was a very good chance of you getting promoted, moving to a new city and opening your own office and possibly making a reasonable living.

But this is the same as any other business, once the market has saturated (look up that word as it describes PerDM's market to a tee), the rate of people getting promoted is very slow.

Even if you do get promoted and move to a different city, I guarantee that Cobra are already there and have the best client. You will be stuck, scraping the barrell and end up doing charities!! begging like little gypsies on peoples doorsteps.

If and when this happens, congratulations, you have hit rock bottom!

The only way for you to avoid that horrible position is to quit and go and find yourself a proper job!

[Thingmejig]

I don't understand why these guys are getting away with what they are doing - why doesn't somebody report them to Trading Standards at least or even the companies they are working for?

[jamespir]

its all part of the cobra group beacause i ahve fallen for the exact same scam

[BexInLondon]

Originally Posted by jaxi

Well I work for Bradford Marketing and I must say none of this rings true... So, I took the job and learned how to do the door to door sales, and about 5 months later I was promoted to Accounts Manager with the HR department, was put on a course to learn how to do everything, and now I'm up for a promotion to Assistant Manager, and it's been just over a year.

Accounts Manager within an HR department? In all my time working for an HR consultancy, and hence reading thousands of job titles and roles descriptions, I never came across that one.

9 years ago in my gap year I took on a job with these jokers (TDB Marketing near Old St) - quit 2 weeks later after watching my colleagues lie about npower to OAPs. Was owed £300 for sales but didn't pursue it, just chalked it up to experience. Someone asked earlier how it can be a scam when you don't have to lay down your own money? In short a) you have to pay travel and b) you give hours and hours of your own time, which is valuable.