Great 'Energy pre-payment meter issues' Hunt
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My Co-op take the debit card for top ups,mind you it is a Co-op debit card!0
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i am with scottish power. i moved into my house about 2 years ago, and stayed with s/p, as i had no problems with them at my old address. anyhow, they gave me an ammount to pay each month, for my dual fuel. this ammount was less than what i was paying at my old address, but as i am now in a smaller property, i beleived the new ammount to be right. my meters were read as normal, 4 times or so, throughout the year. th
ey never put my payments up, so i assumed the payments they had aggreed were ok, never thinking any more about it. then out of the blue, i get a bill for about £800, as i have, nt been paying enough. i have been forced to put prepayment meters in, and pay this debt at around £40 per week all in. it,s not even mt fault. i am a single parent, on basic wage, and wondered if anyone knows of any help i can get. advice etc.0 -
I have asked about havin my meter took out so i can pay monthly direct debit but i have been informed that i must pay to have it removed . They dont tell you when they install them of this , me i think this is like been robbed even further seen as we pay plenty is gas and electric so i am stuck with my pre payment meter as i refuse to give them anymore money than i have to .0
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I am a housing support worker and have spent 15 years helping people settle into their rented (mainly housing association and council) properties. Many problems occur when people are first moving in.
- common scenario is that a prepayment meter is already in the property and the housing officer hands the new tenant an old meter key left behind by former tenant. new tenant starts using it not realising that there is a massive debt on the meter. new tenant does not realise they need to phone up and get the account changed into their name and a new key issued to them and the meter reset and the debt cleared. sometimes tenants have phoned the energy company and think its all sorted. Through bitter experience I have found certain energy companies will take 5 or 6 phone calls repeatedly requesting something is done, before it actually is. Solution would be more education of housing officers and landlords to clearly explain the process to new tenants.
- Even when a new tenant has rung to set up a new account the new key doesn't turn up. They ring again - it still doesnt turn up. they are given codes to give to paypoint to reset the meter and that sometimes doesn't work.
- I advise that any new tenant should find out what meter is in the property they are renting before they move in. Make the phone calls setting up the new account and request a new key a week before you move in.
- Common problem is that tenants are talked into changing suppliers by doorstep salespeople who quote their cheapest rates but dont actually check what the key meter is going to cost.
- Sometimes people change supplier but carry on putting credit onto the meter using their old supplier key. None of the credit is registered with the new supplier and they end up with actual debt bills saying they owe money to the new supplier. when this happens they can contact their old supplier and ask that the credit is transferred to the new supplier. You need a new key when you change supplier. I hate doorstep energy salespeople as I have frequently experienced very vulnerable people constantly changing supplier every few months and their accounts end up in a huge mess, compounded by all the other common problems.
- If you dont owe any debt on a meter then ring round suppliers and find out who will agree to you getting rid of the key meter (if thats what you want). Even if they are not the cheapest, simply change to the cheapest once a standard meter is installed.
- I am not sure about the rules for private rented properties and HMO rooms on insisting on getting rid of a key meter. For general needs housing association and council housing tenants you dont need permission to change from a pre payment to standard meter.
- It is really unfair that people with debts being taken on their meter are unable to change supplier. Often they are trapped on high tarrifs with standard daily/weekly charges going on the meter regardless of how much energy is used. I advise many people to consider changing to suppliers without standing charge tarrifs as soon as they are able.
- I have had instances of people being charged incorrect prices on their key meter per unit.
- I have also had faulty meters where a person on economy 7 (day rate and night rate) had a meter that was charging the expensive day rate 24 hours.
- you can usually get energy providers to re-negotiate the amount taken back each week on a meter. for somone on income support £10 per week is not usually acceptable but £3 to £5 might be - regardless of how much is owed.
- some providers have special assistance funds or charitable grants, for example British Gas energy trust and EDF. They have application forms and you can make a case for a debt to be written off for reasons of poverty and circumstance. We have a great deal of success with this. If you cant do this yourself then visit your local Citizens advice bureau who may be able to help or keep a stock of the forms.
- We have had refunds for clients mistakenly paying someone elses debt using the wrong key, of £100's. If it happens to you, and you think you can make a case that its not your fault or you could not reasonably have known otherwise, then put in a complaint to the customer services dept.
- Always, always check any prepayment meter when you move into a property. press the buttons on it to find the reading that tells you if it has a debt on it. There are leaflets available on how to do this.
- I was under the impression that an energy provider is not allowed to chase payment for a debt if they did not issue a bill for it for a certain period of time because they did not read the meter- is it 12 months? so if you are living somewhere and was not billed for over 12 months they can only back date what you owe for 12 months. I know they can only backdate it for 2 years if it is a faulty meter.
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Sorry, this is going to be a biggy.
I've worked with these meters for over 5 years and some things keep coming up. Often these misunderstandings can cause more problems. They are so prevelant that many employees also believe them despite proof to the contrary. Understanding your meter helps put you in control.
The Meter screens
The electricity meter uses letters to count the screens – press the blue button to move through them. Not all meters will show all screens, and B only shows if using emergency or out of credit.
A – Credit for electricity
B – Amount needed to get electricity back on
C – current time
D – current date
E – Total amount topped up onto meter since it was last reset.
F – Standing charge + Weekly Bill payment
G – Overall reading
H – Reading for day, tier 1,
I – price for day or tier 1
J – Reading for night or tier 2 (may not show)
K – price for night or tier 2 (may not show)
R – amount available for emergency credit (key needs to be in)
S – Remaining bill to pay (key needs to be in)
T – Weekly Bill payment (key needs to be in)
(There are some older meters with a slightly different configuration, but generally the same idea)
Gas meters
The gas meters all use numbers to count the screens, but the newer ones do it in a different order!
There are also 2 or 3 screens without numbers (depending on the model).
You switch between the screens by pressing the red A button.
Credit on meter -> Owed -> (Meter Index) -> Credit on meter etc
To access the numbered screens start on the credit on meter screen, and the card out. Press and hold the red button until the screen changes. Depending on your model the first screen will either be 00 or 27. If 00 the numbers go up sensibly, but you will need to put the card into get past 24.
You don’t need to know all the screens, but here’s some
00 – your last top up
01 – how much of your last top up went towards the outstanding bill
02 – how much of your last top up went towards paying back emergency credit
03 – how much of your last top up went for gas
09 – price per kWh for Tier 1
10 – price per kWh for Tier 2
26 – Weekly bill payment
27 – Remaining bill to pay
(I had to look some of those up!)
Prepayment Prices
Most suppliers have now matched these to their quarterly billed prices, but you can still get better discounts with Direct Debit or online.amandaleeds wrote: »My energy bills in my new property (direct debit system) are high enough as it is so I do think it is most unfair that you are paying a higher tarriff on a prepayment meter, especially for people on low incomes.I also believe that the pre-payment meters are alot more expensive than the bill ones.
Using the Meter to pay back a bill
You can negotiate how much you are paying back each week within reason, and only down to a minimum set by DWP each year.
The gas and electricity meter recover the agreed weekly amount in different waysyou can usually get energy providers to re-negotiate the amount taken back each week on a meter. for somone on income support £10 per week is not usually acceptable but £3 to £5 might be - regardless of how much is owed.
The gas meter tries to take the weekly amount from the first top up after Wednesday 2am (doesn’t matter which day this is). If it is unable to take it all from the first top up, it will try for the remainder from a second etc. This means that it could take the weekly payment on a Monday and a Thursday (two different weeks). If you miss a week, the meter remembers and will try to take the missed payment from the credit on the meter at 2am each morning.
The electricity meter recovers 1% of the weekly amount (e.g. 5p if it’s £5) from the credit on the meter every 101 minutes. If you are in emergency credit or out of credit it remembers the missed ones and takes them from your next top up.shirleymarye wrote: »I have a pre payment meter where it only takes what I owe on a Wednesday! I queried this when I first got the meter and was told it will only take arrears on a Wednesday,so if you ignore Wednesday and put the money on the meter any other day it doesn't collect!
Running out of credit
The new model of electricity meter (has KBD on the front) are programmed not to disconnect overnight so long as you have credit on at the start of the night. This is more important if you have night storage heaters. They will charge for any extra electricity used when you next top up
The gas meters have a safety feature that isn’t very often explained well. If you run out of credit it turns the gas off at the meter, but you may have left your fire or cooker on. When you top up, or choose emergency credit it will ask you to check that the appliances are off, then ask you to hold in the red A button to get the gas back on. Some newer ones tell you when to let go, so if you are not quick you have to start again. You do not need to phone anyone, nor wait for anyone to arrive.samuellification wrote: »They are massively expensive and hugely annoying when you forget and run out of electric in the middle of the night!Sometime people who haven’t got money allow the meters to run completely out of credit and emergency credit. If this happens the meters shut off and you will have to call british gas to get them to put it back on.
Emergency credit
No supplier charges you extra for using emergency credit, if they did it would need to be in the contract & terms and conditions. The meters stretch out the emergency credit by not recovering debt, standing charges or Tier 1 prices (this is an emergency after all). Once you top up it catches up on these delayed charges.crabyducky wrote: »I also don’t like that when your meter runs out of money (emergency credit included) you have to pay off the emergency and a couple of extra on top.
Moving house
As eadieb says, always let the supplier know as soon as you can when you move in, ideally when you are near the meter and can check information on it. It is possible that the old tenant's key and card will be fine for you to use, but don't assume it is the case. If you don't know who the supplier is, choose one, phone them and they can find out for you.I am a housing support worker and have spent 15 years helping people settle into their rented (mainly housing association and council) properties. Many problems occur when people are first moving in.- Always, always check any prepayment meter when you move into a property. press the buttons on it to find the reading that tells you if it has a debt on it. There are leaflets available on how to do this.
Using an old suppliers key/card
In the past this may have meant that payments continued to go to the old supplier, but over the last few years changes have been made so that in the vast majority of cases the payments will redirect to the correct supplier. In those cases where they don't it is down to the new supplier not following the correct steps. In any case, the payments have been made and it is up to the suppliers to sort it out between them, not you.Sometimes people change supplier but carry on putting credit onto the meter using their old supplier key. None of the credit is registered with the new supplier and they end up with actual debt bills saying they owe money to the new supplier.
Outlets charging to let you top up
Shops agree to join one of the top up networks (PayPoint, PayZone) as it means that customers will choose to visit their shop over another one - and they may buy other things while they are there. Shops get a fee for each transaction on top so they shouldn't be charging you too. (That said, paying by debit card is a separate issue). If you have bad experience with an outlet, let the network or your supplier know. If they are under-trained they can phone the network for help.staircase2 wrote: »There seems to be a negative mentality from local shopkeepers towards people who are topping up Prepay keys and cards (but surely they make money from these transactions don't they? I assumed they did)
Faults
You can get a fault with the meter, the card or the key. Most of the time the meter will display a message. Call your supplier to report it – ideally from near the meter, but if not write down what it says, put the card/key in – does it change? Take it out again – any change? An engineer may be able to get more information out of the meter – sometimes it is a software issue that once fixed doesn’t return, but as below, if it repeats you could try getting the meter swapped, but it doesn’t need swapped if it is the first time.Also, with alot of the older meters there was a fault with them. Dont worry, the fault isnt a gas leak or anything like that but you might find that your meter just keeps shutting off and it might say something like "call supplier" or have
or ***** on the LCD screen. Thats typically a sign of the fault. If that keeps happening demand that your supplier change the meter as it will only start happening more frequently. I tried to find a picture of the meters with the fault, but i couldnt. Its a known fault and the first time that it happens your meter is supposed to be changed, however british gas dont have the man power and its just easier and quicker to reset the meter instead of changing it.0 -
I've lived in my 1 room flat for over a year. When i first moved in i asked to have the meter taken out and was told that this would not be done as i was on a 6 month contract. Now i've been here a year i've got in touch again and was told that i'd have to pay to have it installed and then to have it removed when i left.
The amount of money i put on it is unbelievable! During a really cold spell in november i had heating on in one room. It's meant to be economy 7 and it's a storage heater so i tried not to panic about keeping the heating on in one room - to save elecy i even brought all my bedding into the front room and slept in front of the heater to stay warm. In one week i'd spend £90!!!!!! I couldn't believe it and neither could my suppliers when i rang them. I'm disgusted with the whole thing and since i've been made redundant i don't have the money to heat my flat and spend most of the day under covers to stay warm. I've even got really really ill as i didn't heat the flat due to having no money and had to be taken to my parents house to recooperate. The elecy company can't figure out how i used £70 between 12am-7am over that week, specially as it's the economy 7 time and my trying to contact the letting agency to get someone to come and see if there is something wrong with the wiring in my flat has got me nowhere - they just don't answer the phone :mad: HELP!!!!0 -
I had a prepayment meter in my council flat. It was already there when I moved in and was told due to the fact it was a council property then I would not be able to have it removed.
I went into the emergency credit once for about 30mins (enough time for the OH to walk to the shop and back) but when we moved out and informed the company we were told that we had a debt on our account. After many many phone calls they told us that there wasnt a debt and that we owed nothing.
Setting it up with British Gas was a horendous problem 3 days completely on hold not getting through to a single person on the 4th day finally got through to someone who became rather more disinterested when I said I needed to sort out a prepayment meter.
I have often found you are treated as second class when discussing prepayment with all of the companies i have been with (british gas, southern electric and scottish power)
I have found the best way is to go through the menu and go to the new customer line you get straight through and then they redirect you straight away.
For a 3 bed house that i now live in i pay around £15. Which compared to my mother pretty much identical house on bill payments she pays around £9.
It seems the people who are worse off are paying the extra costs and being treated like a second class person.
Sorry for going on a bit :rotfl:The only people I have to answer to are my beautiful babies aged 8 and 50 -
I moved into a house with prepayment meters installed. British Gas sent me a new gas card but forgot to send me a new electricity key. When I called them they told me to use the previous occupant's key which I did. I found out later that the previous occupant had opted to pay a higher fixed tariff and I had therefore been paying more than I should have done. So far my complaint about this has been ignored. Even getting the meter changed to a normal one was fraught with problems as the engineer that came to do it first time, said that because of a shared fuse it wasn't possible. That turned out to be wrong and the meter was eventually changed. I have now left British Gas and will never use them again.0
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By the way for all the people saying that the suppliers made appointments and then didn't turn, you should be getting a £20 compensation payment every time. And if they don't give it to you within 2 weeks of the missed appointment, you should claim another £20. I got £80 from British Gas for two missed appointments to change the meter. I had to ask for the payment and argue my case though.0
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Hi Mark, My name is Keith and have been reading what you have to say here about ppm and agree with you and lots of other posts about them, anyway I would like to pick you brains a bit with the following:- Who are EBI? Are they nationwide? And lastly how do I get in contact with them ? I am at the moment with British gas for leccy and for gas and would really like a cheaper source. Thank you in advance. Regards. KeithAs far as I know, pre-payment meters are usually more expensive, so the best solution I know of is to go with EBI Co, who charge everyone the same regardless of how you pay, whether you pay by direct debit or just monthly bills or pre-payment cards.
They're a lot cheaper than most (if not all) other electricity/gas companies too. They're very good.
(And no, I don't work for them or anything.)0
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