IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Loading bay rules and fines? Advice please

24

Comments

  • Coblcris
    Coblcris Posts: 1,862 Forumite
    roddydogs wrote: »
    Yes it does because the attendent/Warden has only to observe for 3 mins befor issuing a ticket
    if you cant be seen at the vehicle within 3 mins, dont park-simple.

    Utter tripe.

    http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/LOADADJ.pdf
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 29 May 2009 at 7:42AM
    Your missing the point.........example 20 mins loading DOSENT mean you can park for 20 mins it means that the MAXIMUM loading time is 20 mins.........you HAVE to be continously loading for a maximum 20 mins.............of course if you dont actually see an attendent youll usually get away with it, but that dosent mean its "legal". also, of course anyone can appeal any ticket, and many do succeed, this doent mean that any attendent/warden will then stop issuing tickets in the pescribed manor
    i shold know- i issued enough tickets.
  • Neil_B
    Neil_B Posts: 1,360 Forumite
    Continuously does not mean continuously at the vehicle. In your lates offered scenario all of our goods an belongings would be left at kerbside!!

    No one has suggested that a 20 minute loading allowance means you can park for any of that time?
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    As i said if your not seen within 3 mins, you can get a ticket.......it dosent mean that eveytime someone has been away from the vehicle for more than 3 mins they get a ticket, it dosent mean that EVERY attendent will only give 3 mins
    im just telling you the criteria, if you dont believe thats up to you
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    roddydogs wrote: »
    As i said if your not seen within 3 mins, you can get a ticket.......it dosent mean that eveytime someone has been away from the vehicle for more than 3 mins they get a ticket, it dosent mean that EVERY attendent will only give 3 mins
    im just telling you the criteria, if you dont believe thats up to you
    of course if your loading you wont be continiously at the vehicle, as how would you get the goods into the shop?
  • Neil_B
    Neil_B Posts: 1,360 Forumite
    I'm not disputing that was the criteria you were given Roddy but it isn't in any Regs and you have failed to quote any repeatedly when asked. In any case a claimed obs time of only 3 mins where loading is permitted would be ridiculed by any Adjudicator!
    -
    I fully understand that it is reasonable for a PCN to be issued after a reasonable time, IMV 7/8 minutes. if no loading could be seen to be taking place.

    The problem we are frequently experiencing is

    a) for hand served PCNs Councils refuse to cancel even when people explain. the Councils lose nearly all or probably all of these or back off at the very last minute.

    b) For CCTV PCNs with full evidence of loading in front of them Councils again refuse to cancel. Sometimes it is clear they do not even check back on the recording they already have. hence a failure to consider and illegal!

    I'm guessing you may have been a Police employed Warden? If so, I think you'll find times have changed considerably and revenue generation is blatant. If that was your old job, effective and fair enforcement, I think you'll find it is defunct sadly.
    --
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Your still missing the point.........most people would want to avoid a ticket......they dont want the "Hassle" of trying to get a council to cancel the ticket, theyd rather not have the ticket in the first place. If you follow my criteria, you wont get one.
    I totally agree that loading bay regs are "Vague"......as is the nonsence of allowing Diasbled Drivers to park in them, but thats not what im saying.
  • Neil_B
    Neil_B Posts: 1,360 Forumite
    I DO get the point but I am saying it is impractical. Also it should not be necessary. We cannot allow Councils to behave unreasonably by quickfiring off PCNs as they do. The commercial effect should be obvious. there is a particular Company whose name appears in the PATAS hearing lists several times almost daily. Given their business they would obviously be unloading at numerous locations. The fact that they spend more time in hearings than they do conducting their business (sic) is worrying.

    For the case in hand then your advice should also not be necessary. The Council can clearly already see, via CCTV, that loading was taking place. The behaviour of the operator and Council subsequently is outrageous.
    Rather than have the need to follow your advice and be constantly worried about the risk of an unfair PCN I'd rather we returned to sensible fair enforcement and parking management.

    Incidentally, your advice is directly contrary to the official strong Guidance of DfT which i have printed here numerous times. I do not agree that the rules are vague at all. They are clear - loading is permitted, full stop. Councils just choose to ride roughshod over the DfT on the matter regarding the need for training and particular observations.
  • Coblcris
    Coblcris Posts: 1,862 Forumite
    edited 30 May 2009 at 1:50PM
    If the video has been reviewed by the council and shows compliant loading but they still pursue the PCN after seeing clear evidence to the contrary (evidence created with type approved equipment don't forget !) then to my mind there is a clear case for charges to be brought against the council. of course you can't charge a council, only individuals so it sounds like the Parking Manager would be the defendant.
    In cases such as this it may good practice to put review of the video in the appeal to establish the evidence trail. Of they don't respond to that appeal point they should lose anyway and if they do and it is a case such as this then you have them in your cross-hairs.

    The cameras are like tracer bullets, they work both ways as a source of information.
    .
    What is the opinion of the enlightened ?
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,478
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Yes, they are Vague......how many people know that a full trolly of shopping is not "Loading"........your saying what you think the rules should be...not what they are.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.6K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.7K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.5K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards