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Parking Eye parking charge notice clarification

Our car overstayed by 38 minutes in a Parking Eye controlled car park. We have received a parking charge notice. From other posts on this forum, are we correct in thinking that this charge is unenforceable?

We did not notice any signs although have been back and seen they are present. We did not get close enough to read the wording but have seen similar signs since in another car park by another company which state that if you overstay the max allowed you agree to pay the charge of £70 in this case. If the Parking Eye signs had a similar wording, stating that you agree to pay a charge if overstaying, then can you be made to pay the charge?


Parkingfront.jpg
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Comments

  • BASFORDLAD
    BASFORDLAD Posts: 2,418 Forumite
    No just ignore it.

    How did ur car overstay? Is it herbie?
    For everthing else there's mastercard.
    For clampers there's Barclaycard.
  • taffy056
    taffy056 Posts: 4,895 Forumite
    The only way you can be made to pay this, is if they take you to court and you lose. The chances of that happening are minuscule.

    For 2011
    Fake tickets issued: 1,800,000
    Small claims: 845
    Actual claims before a judge: 49
    Claims won by PPCs: 24
    Chances of going to court: 36,000-1
    Chances of losing in court : 72,000-1

    So the ignore advice is the best option for you, unless you get signed and stamped court papers.
    Excel Parking, MET Parking, Combined Parking Solutions, VP Parking Solutions, ANPR PC Ltd, & Roxburghe Debt Collectors. What do they all have in common?
    They are all or have been suspended from accessing the DVLA database for gross misconduct!
    Do you really need to ask what kind of people run parking companies?
  • Stephen_Leak
    Stephen_Leak Posts: 8,762
    Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    You are correct.

    Firstly, the legal stuff.

    Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. A private parking company (PPC) call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.


    Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

    All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

    There are also now recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

    What should I do now?


    We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

    Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with harassing the registered keeper.

    With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve had to do this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

    They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

    However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it just means that they can now harass the driver instead of harassing the registered keeper.

    How will they do this to me?

    The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.


    But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer can't take anyone who didn’t pay them to court.

    What should I do then?

    Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem odd to deal with something like this by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.
    The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in my life. :)
  • Sedated
    Sedated Posts: 34 Forumite
    Thanks everyone
    So wording on a sign saying to the effect of ... I agree to pay a penalty/charge of ??? if I overstay the alloted time, is unenforcable even though its there for all who park there to read?
  • ManxRed
    ManxRed Posts: 3,530 Forumite
    Well, agreeing to pay a penalty is moot, as private companies cannot legally enforce penalties. Whether a 'charge' would stand up then I suspect it would fail on grounds of reasonableness.

    In other words, would you have willingy parked there and accepted the charge of £75 for staying longer than the limit? I suspect not, and I suspect a judge would agree.

    The fact that the charge purely exists to be paid by 'overstayers' indicates straight away that it is punitive in nature, and therefore a penalty.

    This is before we even get to the killer issue of whether the PPC actually owns (or has ownership rights - in other words a lessee) the land in question.

    In a recent ruling in the Upper Tax Tribunal (which is binding on lower courts) a judge ruled that unless a PPC is actually the landowner (or equivalent) then they have no right to offer parking and form a contract with drivers in the first place, and hence cannot pursue charges in respect of that contract themselves.

    Only the landowner could do it.

    So yes, ignore this ticket and all the follow up letters.
    Je Suis Cecil.
  • Stephen_Leak
    Stephen_Leak Posts: 8,762
    Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    edited 22 July 2012 at 5:08PM
    Sedated wrote: »
    Thanks everyone
    So wording on a sign saying to the effect of ... I agree to pay a penalty/charge of ??? if I overstay the alloted time, is unenforcable even though its there for all who park there to read?

    You're correct again.

    The signs should be good enough for a driver to read, including any "small print", as they drive past in a car, in order to create a fair and legally binding contract.

    Even if we assume that they do, a "parking charge" of £75 has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty. It's the usual reason why the few PPCs, who have "tried it on" in court, have lost.

    The last time PE did this they lost the case for this reason. They also lost £4607.20 in claimed "charges" and legal costs.
    The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in my life. :)
  • bondy_lad
    bondy_lad Posts: 1,001
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    sedated,, you need to worry not and read the stickies,, you have been issued with a FAKE ticket,,its not genuine,not legally enforceable,, you have a PARKING charge notice (you have this)=fake/unenforceable invoice,,the real deal is called a PENALTY charge notice (you do not have this)=only issued by police/traffic warden and must be paid,so ignore full stop absolutely everything you recieve on or on behalf of them as all part of the scam, jobs a real good un, eh, now, read those stickies.
  • Kite2010
    Kite2010 Posts: 4,304
    First Anniversary First Post Home Insurance Hacker! Car Insurance Carver!
    Forumite
    Ignore Parking Spy, and ignore the shop which is foolish enough to employ them.

    If you have someone on order, cancel it saying "sorry I don't have the money anymore, I need to pay for the privilege of overstaying in your car-park when I was placing the order", the sooner the stores lose out by employing parasities the better
  • Sedated
    Sedated Posts: 34 Forumite
    A massive thanks to everyone who's replied. Appreciated.

    Just waiting for the intimidation to start:mad:
  • BASFORDLAD
    BASFORDLAD Posts: 2,418 Forumite
    Sedated wrote: »
    A massive thanks to everyone who's replied. Appreciated.

    Just waiting for the intimidation to start:mad:

    Or prehaps rephrase that?

    Waiting to play snap with the letters you get
    For everthing else there's mastercard.
    For clampers there's Barclaycard.
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