Chancel Repair Liability Insurance

24

Comments

  • RetroBob
    RetroBob Posts: 171 Forumite
    My solicitor told me it was only available from a solicitor (but they would say that) - I confirmed this also by looking at the literature from a CRL insurance provider.
  • gordikin
    gordikin Posts: 4,422 Forumite
    £50 On a house warming party!....is it just going to be the 2 of us then?
  • Bring your own drink... bread sticks don't buy themselves you know!!

    Thanks for the advice Retrobob
  • deeplyblue
    deeplyblue Posts: 151 Forumite
    RetroBob wrote: »
    My solicitor told me it was only available from a solicitor (but they would say that) - I confirmed this also by looking at the literature from a CRL insurance provider.
    Yes, but ...

    I'm not entirely sure that the specialist CRL insurance provider is the best source of info on this one, as they (and the solicitors) have a nice little earner set up. Try finding a local insurance broker and ask them if anyone can give you CRL cover even if you've investigated it, and if so at what cost. Explain that the standard provider will only help if you do no research in advance.

    Or, of course, you could pay up and get everyone to bring their own breadsticks (and yours).

    db
  • Just thought I'd post an update on this...

    I managed to purchase insurance myself instead of going through the solicitor and it cameto a whopping £59.75! :money:This covers us for 25 years with an indemnity up to £250,000.

    We went with www dot clsl dot co dot uk who were a little taken back at us trying to buy this ourselves but ended up sorting this out without any problems at all and we managed to do it all over the phone in less than 10 minutes.

    Obviously £59.75 won't be same for everyone but thought I'd post this to let you know just in case, like us your a first time buyer and are stuck with the same problem.

    The breadsticks are back on!!

    Cheers
  • deeplyblue
    deeplyblue Posts: 151 Forumite
    We went with www dot clsl dot co dot uk who were a little taken back at us trying to buy this ourselves but ended up sorting this out without any problems at all and we managed to do it all over the phone in less than 10 minutes.

    Obviously £59.75 won't be same for everyone but thought I'd post this to let you know just in case, like us your a first time buyer and are stuck with the same problem.

    The breadsticks are back on!!

    Cheers
    Congratulations - a little enterprise often goes a long way.

    I'm rather partial to cheese straws, if you feel like lashing out.

    db
  • I notice there have been a few bits in the news of late.

    If I purchase a leasehold property do I still need to obtain this insurance. Neighbours who have been in the area for a while never had, but someone who purchased 2 years ago had to pay, but they were freehold.

    Help.
  • deeplyblue
    deeplyblue Posts: 151 Forumite
    edited 5 October 2009 at 5:04AM
    I notice there have been a few bits in the news of late.

    If I purchase a leasehold property do I still need to obtain this insurance. Neighbours who have been in the area for a while never had, but someone who purchased 2 years ago had to pay, but they were freehold.

    Help.
    There is help, but it's not very helpful! Put simply, nobody knows - including the Law Commission (whose job it is to have general oversight of the laws of England and Wales - Scotland has a different legal system). The Law Commission looked into CRL, and produced a report damning in its simplicity. When lawyers resort to clear words it usually means that there is no doubt about what they want to say.

    In the case of leasehold properties and CRL, they say (and I quote directly from their document)
    There is doubt whether or how chancel repair liability affects the owners of leasehold property. The Law Commission was unable to trace any case deciding that the liability attached to leasehold land; the query remains. It is, however, possible that the contractual terms of many leases would have the effect of transferring the burden of making any payment from the freehold/landlord to the tenant.
    So: nobody knows in general terms, nobody could be sure even if they could see your lease, even if you had a clause saying that you would have to pay land charges, then CRL might or might not be covered. Nobody can even be sure if your land were covered. Normally there is some case law on this sort of issue, but nobody has ever tested whether leasehold property has CRL in court.

    You might find your property doesn't have CRL - even if a close neighbour does, or you might find out the hard way that it does. Then you could find that the CRL in your case was £38.50 - or £50,000. Then you could try to make your landlord pay, and have the dubious honour of clarifying matters for the Law Commission. As to whether you would have to cough up - "Well, do you feel lucky?"

    If you can't face the whole thing then you have two options:

    1) Walk away from the property

    2) Buy CRL insurance. Note that this seems to solve all your problems, but doesn't. Back to the Law Commission again, this time back in true legal form seeing all sorts of possibilities which the rest of us might not contemplate - in this case the question is , "What happens if the church roof is damaged by terrorism?" It turns out that you're not covered against terrorist attacks on a church roof, which might produce demands for chancel repair payments. Perhaps you should evaluate the likelihood of terrorists attacking any nearby churches.

    More likely is that any claims for CRL, even if met by your CRL insurers, might reduce the value of your home. That bit of financial damage is not covered by the insurance. You can extend your CRL insurance to cover all future purchasers of your house, at extra cost, but that might not be enough to reassure everyone.

    There is also going to be increasing pressure on governments to come up with some better system for financing the repair of church roofs, and the abolition of CRL - but don't expect anything that involves the Church of England and money to be solved quickly. The Church, whether it likes the proposals or not (and it won't like the first draft - it never does) will take years and years to argue over the matter.

    Meanwhile, you will also hear it said that if you have done any investigation about CRL, then no one will insure you. THIS IS NOT TRUE - one of the companies which first saw the potential in CRL insurance made it a condition of the insurance that you had no idea whether or not you needed it. Others have been a little more flexible. You could try googling "Chancel Repair Liability" and "ChancelNSR" or "Chancel Repair Liability" and "Countrywide" as well as the company clsl, whose website address is given in earlier posts in this thread. (I think I can't give you actual clickable links on this forum.).

    If you've read the whole of this thread, you will also see that in some places you'll be told that only your solicitor can buy CRL insurance; this too is untrue - you can save money by negotiating the fee yourself as first_time_buyer found. Shop around.

    HTH

    db

    Edit: I say here that the report is by the Law Commission. It is not, it is by the Law Society (the professional body for solicitors), but makes reference to an earlier report by the Law Commission.
  • I am currently selling my leasehold flat which is in a council owned building on land which is owned by the council. My solicitor has advised me that I should have chancel repair insurance but in my opinion, this is incorrect and should be allowed for in the service charge levied on each flat in the block. As the council block is very near a church, it is extremely likely that all the land round here was owned by the church and therefore the council should have chancel repair liability insurance. Since they are the freeholders and own the land, it is likely that they know nothing about chancel repair liability since no mention of it is made in our annual service charge details. Individual occupants of these flats whether they are tenants or leaseholders are therefore not liable individually for chancel repair liability insurance, but the council is and the premium should be shown as being part of the annual service charge. Should I advise the council to check that they will be responsible for chancel repairs if the land on which their council blocks are built may be church land orifinally?
  • I see you are all slagging off solicitors. NOTE: solicitors did not make the rules up about chancel repair liability and they have to ensure they advise you to have this insurance as if you don't and then find you face a chancel repair liability you could sue them for negligence. This is the situation that lawyers face. they have no choice. As to the leaseholder above, chances are your lease makes you liable for this potential cost.:eek:
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards