Need help - Bailiffs and Council Tax Arrears

hallowitch · 30 January 2012 at 2:56PM

you should have asked the to confirm that this bailiff has the authority to collect this debt as his certificated is not with PNX

phone the MOJ and ask if he has changed his certificate details to reflect a new employer Ministry of Justice Public Register of bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 to confirm

ask him for the phone number of Worcester Combined Court(i cant find it ) phone them and ask if he has applied for a change of certificate if yes when

If the answer is no to both then get back on the phone to the council don't ask demand they confirm today that he has their authorisation to collect this debt as he is not certificated to PNX

Distillerdude · 30 January 2012 at 3:18PM

Ok, we're basically going to ignore him if he comes to the door, which is awkward.

My wife does have proof of her mental health/anxiety issues and prescriptions for her medication.

I phoned the MOJ on that number but the only option was to leave a message, so i did.

I then found the number for Worcester Combined Court and telephoned them. They are going to call me back shortly with the change of certificate details.

I look forward to getting this email from RAS. Thanks again to all of you for this help.

Distillerdude · 30 January 2012 at 3:30PM

Just heard back from Worcester Combined Court who said that his employment was changed to RES (Recovery Enforcement Services) of Worcester on 8th Aug 2011.

So I suppose the next thing to find out is if RES and Phoenix are connected? I tried to ring RES but it goes straight to answering phone. I haven't left a message with them yet.

hallowitch · 30 January 2012 at 3:45PM

Distillerdude wrote: »

Just heard back from Worcester Combined Court who said that his employment was changed to RES (Recovery Enforcement Services) of Worcester on 8th Aug 2011.

So I suppose the next thing to find out is if RES and Phoenix are connected? I tried to ring RES but it goes straight to answering phone. I haven't left a message with them yet.

It doesn't matter if they are connected it would be seen as sub contacting and most if not all local authority contact's with there bailiff firms do not allow them to sub contact work out

In fact get on the phone now ask to speak to someone of authority in recovery ask them to get it sorted asap (today) this bailiff has no authority to collect this debt (and the council can confirm with PNX immediately why this bailiff has been instructed to collect your debt tell them you are sending a complaint to the ICO (information commissioner's office ) reporting there contractor for passing on your info with no legal authorisation

wish i had known about your wife being ill when wrote that letter she could be classed as vulnerable

http://www.ico.gov.uk/
go on your local authority web site you can make a freedom of information request
does xxxx local authority have a service level agreement with PNX LTD if yes what is it
does xxx local authority have a contract with PNX LTD if yes what is it

Distillerdude · 30 January 2012 at 4:13PM

hallowitch wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they are connected it would be seen as sub contacting and most if not all local authority contact's with there bailiff firms do not allow them to sub contact work out

In fact get on the phone now ask to speak to someone of authority in recovery ask them to get it sorted asap (today) this bailiff has no authority to collect this debt (and the council can confirm with PNX immediately why this bailiff has been instructed to collect your debt tell them you are sending a complaint to the ICO (information commissioner's office ) reporting there contractor for passing on your info with no legal authorisation.

Ok, I spoke to Barnet Council again who have basically told me that it's no longer Barnet Council's debt as they've passed the liability order to Phoenix, and as such it's not up to them what Phoenix do or who they use.

So I asked them to confirm that if for example Phoenix were using improper methods to pursue this account, Barnet Council would not be liable or able to do anything? She confirmed this.

RAS · 30 January 2012 at 7:02PM

Distillerdude wrote: »

Ok, I spoke to Barnet Council again who have basically told me that it's no longer Barnet Council's debt as they've passed the liability order to Phoenix, and as such it's not up to them what Phoenix do or who they use.

So I asked them to confirm that if for example Phoenix were using improper methods to pursue this account, Barnet Council would not be liable or able to do anything? She confirmed this.

Well it is about time that this lady learned the law.

Ring back, ask to speak to to her, get her name and then remind her of the conversation. At that point tell her you are recording the conversation and ask her to repeat the advice given to you tonight, because it is wrong.

Local authorities cannot avoid responsibility for the action of their agents.

Then write to them and advise them that if you see this bailiff gain, you will complain to the Ombudsman.

Does your local councillor have a surgery anytime soon? If so, book an appointment.

And get it in writing to both the Council and the bailiff that your wife is a vulnerable person. Send two letters from different post offices with a certificate of posting.

RAS · 30 January 2012 at 7:25PM

Distillerdude wrote: »

I phone the council who said that the liability order was in the amount of £1,436.25 and this amount was passed to Phoenix on 29th November. They were also shocked that we were asked for £1,660 as they believed the amount with fees should only be about £1,460 at the moment.

I then called Phoenix who told me to contact the bailiff and would not listen to any proposals to pay. I then called the bailiff who said that he had added a £200 attendance fee for today and confirmed that he would accept nothing less than the full £1660 by Friday. I kept the conversation short as I could not record it.

Well. This lot need to learn the law, although adding illegal fees is so common that when one OP here went back to the bailiff to advise him that she was not paying half the attendance fee (his offer of a compromise), his answer was "OK, fair cop!"

Please e-mail central@phoenixcommercial.co.uk

You need to say something along the following lines

Account 1234556677

I refer to the above account in relation to unpaid council tax due to Barnet Council
As you will be aware from your files this account has been passed to Mr Holmes collecting on behalf of yourselves.
Mr Holmes left a notice of attendance with an outstanding balance of £1660 this amount is not broken down to explain the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary.

The query that I have is concerning the amount that your bailiff is now stating is due. You will be aware that your bailiff visited my premises on xxx and for this visit I am advised that Mr xxx may only charge a fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy where no levy was made".

As a matter of urgency can you please provide a full and detailed breakdown of the charges made by your bailiff.

Please also note that my wife has (mental health problems) and I have been advised that she is a vulnerable person and as such your staff should cease attending the property when she is there.( In particular I object to him trying to force the door open by putting his foot in it and preventing her from closing the door) - whatever words you want.

Distillerdude

I was tempted to remind them that the bailiff is not certificated, but lets leave this to later (as at the moment they cannot have any fees and you do not want them sending a correctly certified bailiff just so they can collect fees).

Distillerdude · 30 January 2012 at 10:40PM

Thanks RAS. I'll ring the Council tomorrow. I've got the name of the lady I spoke to earlier so I'll try to speak to her again and get her to repeat her advice.

In the meantime, I've readied letters to the council advising them that if we see this bailiff again, we will complain to the Ombudsman.

I've also readied letters to both the Council and Phoenix advising them of my wife's vulnerable status. Shall I also email this to the Council?

I have also emailed phoenix as per your advice.

Thanks again for all of this, and I'll keep you posted if anything else happens.

hallowitch · 30 January 2012 at 10:49PM

Thanks RAS. I'll ring the Council tomorrow. I've got the name of the lady I spoke to earlier so I'll try to speak to her again and get her to repeat her advice.

Ohh i am so happy you got her name dont post her name on here but do you know if she works in council tax recovery
Ive got a nice e-mail almost ready to send to

Richard Cornelius

Position:
Leader of the Council

Party:
Conservative

Ward:
Totteridge

Address:
Leader's Office
London Borough of Barnet
North London Business Park
Oakleigh Road South
London

[EMAIL="cllr.r.cornelius@barnet.gov.uk"]cllr.r.cornelius@barnet.gov.uk[/EMAIL]|

N11 1NP

Distillerdude · 31 January 2012 at 12:51PM

Here's a turn up!

Had a phone call from someone at Phoenix apologising for any distress and telling me that they've just sent me an email with their payment proposals. They also said that there should not have been a £200 "attending fee" and that only the standard £42.50 fees should have been added.

I checked my email and found the following from Phoenix:

[FONT=&quot]Good Morning,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please find attached letters detailing a breakdown of your account. We are able to offer you a 10 month arrangement on the account, the payments will be £102.87 per month. Please contact us by return to set this arrangement up. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Once the arrangement is set up on the account no further recovery action will be taken unless the arrangement is broken.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards[/FONT]

They've also included an attachment breakdown of the total amount made up as follows:

Debt: £1436.25
Court Fees: £0.00
Bailiff Charges: £42.50
Payments received: £450.00

TOTAL DUE: £1,028.75

Sounds like an excellent result to me! I feel like I want to accept their offer and then accelerate payments to them as I already planned to. Let me know what you guys think!

Need help - Bailiffs and Council Tax Arrears

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