Stepchange general questions

2»

Comments

  • GD2_2
    GD2_2 Posts: 53 Forumite
    Vitally important, that is absolutely true. Still doesn't explain why a charity that is funded directly by creditor contributions would turn away the very people that can be argued to need their help most though does it?

    Would be a bit like oxfam refusing to feed the hungriest in times of famine, and I can't see a reason why, other than a proportionate reduction in their income, it can be justified.
  • GD2_2
    GD2_2 Posts: 53 Forumite
    As CCCS have taken the time to answer Depth Charge, why won't they answer another straightforward question? It isn't a particularly hard question to answer, i.e. as a charity why do you turn people away?

    Would be nice to have public clarification, even if only for newbies to the boards on here.
  • GD2_2
    GD2_2 Posts: 53 Forumite
    Hi GD2

    We only recommend a debt management plan when it’s best advice for the clients own situation. We don’t have any set criteria for affordability and we have no £100 threshold for DMPs.

    It’s probably worth emailing us directly if you have any questions about our policies.

    Kind regards,

    Mat

    More than happy to accept what you have said re the £100 threshold, and apologies if I got it wrong. Haviing said that, I will say that that was information given to me by a CAB case worker who deal with referrals from CCCS when they cannot help and so therefore had no reason to doubt it. I would ask you to clarify, though, why you have indicated here that there is no minimum for your help, yet on another thread or question have also said that you do not operate a token payment scheme. This surely indicates that there IS some sort of threshold? Could you expand to what that is? To use my own example earlier, do you accept people with a disposable income of £50 on to a DMP (where best advice of course)? Could you give us any idea of what proportion of your DMP clients pay under £100?
  • Hi,

    Never posted on here but I feel I have to comment on this.

    Just so you know, I am a 46 year old (now) single mum with 3 kids. I found myself in trouble when my husband left. !!!!less bas***d left, went bankrupt and I haven't heard from him since, one piece of good news I suppose lol. Anyway, due to my job, even though I'm not a homeowner and have no assets I couldn't really go bankrupt, so I approached CCCS for help. That's what the forums say, that's what my employer at the time said. Being reasonably bright about financial statements, I had worked out my own disposable income to be around £200 ish on about £30,000 debt, most in joint names. What was it I said about being bright? Anyway, I spoke to CCCS fully expecting an IVA recommendation at around £200 per month. Let me tell you that my eyes were opened that day. Not only did they not bother discussing an IVA with me at all, they said it was BR or DMP, they then expected me to pay £300 per month on a DMP. No way could I afford that, but they didn't care, their attitude was pay as much as you can. They insisted I should knock both my childcare and petrol down, even though without enough to pay then I couldn't have worked anyway. Laughingly, they gave me the spiel about their plans being paid for by creditors, hinting that it didn't matter what I paid as it made no difference to them. I have since learned that they are paid a %, so the more you pay, the more they earn.

    Anyway, I approached a well known IP for an IVA, who was horrified by the way, and I entered into one at £180 per month. I kept all of this from everyone, until my brother found out. I can't say I found the IVA easy, but £180 was a hell of a lot better than the £300 that CCCS wanted. My brother, bless, funded a full and final settlement 2 and a half years in and I am now debt free.

    Anyway, all of this really is background to now. I work for a very large creditor (which is why I never wanted bankruptcy) who doesn't refer leads to CCCS and never will. My employers view them as sanitised debt collectors, who are a law unto themselves. I was given, this week, a copy of the latest Credit Today magazine, circulated primarily amongst the credit industry. I don't think you can buy it in the shops. The centre page spread is a huge advert for CCCS, boasting about how they are going to help many more people in debt. This is not going to come from ever more creditor referrals, but from massive advertising on TV, Press and internet. Where is this money coming from? Is it the millions in cash that they sit on perhaps? Let me quote a couple of lines from an advert that no ordinary man in the street/on the internet will ever see, as they will not dare publish it a newspaper,

    "For those in debt distress, that means a more caring and considered approach to their problems. For UK creditors, it means the best possible help and advice for your customers. And, importantly, more debt repaid."

    "With our debt management plans, all money repaid goes towards clearing the debt, None goes to us, Last year, we repaid over £312 Million to UK creditors. By referring customers to us, not the commercial sector, you're assured of better rates of debt recovery."

    "Call us now to find out more on **** *** ****. If you'd like to know more about how we can help your customers overcome debt problems, and manage their debt repayments, contact us now."

    This is an advert aimed solely at those creditors that do not refer directly. It blows away completely any lingering hint of impartiality that CCCS claim to have. They mention no ther solution than DMP, and are promising creditors a better return. Why? so they can earn more commission. It stinks. CCCS receive, I believe, around an 11% "dividend" or "donation" on what they collect. Meaning nigh on £3 Million per month in fees. Why on earth would they recommend anything other than DMP? And GD2 is right BTW, CCCS WILL turn you away, though they may say they won't. Search this whole forum for people who have written that they were refused help from CCCS, there are hundreds on here. Or, search for those that were advised DMP when it will take 10, 20, 30 years or more. Probably thousands.

    Mat, and the others, may believe what they are fed, but the reality is so much different. I have always said that actions speak much louder than words, and my advice to anyone would be to speak to Payplan, CAB, National Debtline. Anyone but CCCS.

    If you want to pay your creditors as much as you can then do it direct, don't let these money grabbers earn their commission. Maybe, as more people (and creditors who pass them 10,000 leads per week)are cottoning on to them, that is why they are going tobe directly advertising at,great expense,to replace the captured market monopoly that they have hitherto enjoyed. Maybe that is why this "debt myth" thread has appeared. The only debt myth here is that CCCS is impartial.
  • The reason I have posted again is that this is a thread about debt myths. Assumedly, for censorship, it can only be what CCCS decide? I don't personally think that is right, but I suppose most will disagree.

    James had no hesitation in attacking the competition CCCS faces from fee payers, is it right that no one has a right of reply? Is it right that you don't see the way they market themselves to creditors as working for creditors, whilst the myth on here perpetuates that they are impartial? Does it not at least deserve an explanation from CCCS, or will they ignore it?

    Make your own mind up, but I repeat that I work for a credit company, one of the few that isn't seduced.
  • lorraine_r wrote: »
    Hi,

    Never posted on here but I feel I have to comment on this.

    Just so you know, I am a 46 year old (now) single mum with 3 kids. I found myself in trouble when my husband left. !!!!less bas***d left, went bankrupt and I haven't heard from him since, one piece of good news I suppose lol. Anyway, due to my job, even though I'm not a homeowner and have no assets I couldn't really go bankrupt, so I approached CCCS for help. That's what the forums say, that's what my employer at the time said. Being reasonably bright about financial statements, I had worked out my own disposable income to be around £200 ish on about £30,000 debt, most in joint names. What was it I said about being bright? Anyway, I spoke to CCCS fully expecting an IVA recommendation at around £200 per month. Let me tell you that my eyes were opened that day. Not only did they not bother discussing an IVA with me at all, they said it was BR or DMP, they then expected me to pay £300 per month on a DMP. No way could I afford that, but they didn't care, their attitude was pay as much as you can. They insisted I should knock both my childcare and petrol down, even though without enough to pay then I couldn't have worked anyway. Laughingly, they gave me the spiel about their plans being paid for by creditors, hinting that it didn't matter what I paid as it made no difference to them. I have since learned that they are paid a %, so the more you pay, the more they earn.

    Anyway, I approached a well known IP for an IVA, who was horrified by the way, and I entered into one at £180 per month. I kept all of this from everyone, until my brother found out. I can't say I found the IVA easy, but £180 was a hell of a lot better than the £300 that CCCS wanted. My brother, bless, funded a full and final settlement 2 and a half years in and I am now debt free.

    Anyway, all of this really is background to now. I work for a very large creditor (which is why I never wanted bankruptcy) who doesn't refer leads to CCCS and never will. My employers view them as sanitised debt collectors, who are a law unto themselves. I was given, this week, a copy of the latest Credit Today magazine, circulated primarily amongst the credit industry. I don't think you can buy it in the shops. The centre page spread is a huge advert for CCCS, boasting about how they are going to help many more people in debt. This is not going to come from ever more creditor referrals, but from massive advertising on TV, Press and internet. Where is this money coming from? Is it the millions in cash that they sit on perhaps? Let me quote a couple of lines from an advert that no ordinary man in the street/on the internet will ever see, as they will not dare publish it a newspaper,

    "For those in debt distress, that means a more caring and considered approach to their problems. For UK creditors, it means the best possible help and advice for your customers. And, importantly, more debt repaid."

    "With our debt management plans, all money repaid goes towards clearing the debt, None goes to us, Last year, we repaid over £312 Million to UK creditors. By referring customers to us, not the commercial sector, you're assured of better rates of debt recovery."

    "Call us now to find out more on **** *** ****. If you'd like to know more about how we can help your customers overcome debt problems, and manage their debt repayments, contact us now."

    This is an advert aimed solely at those creditors that do not refer directly. It blows away completely any lingering hint of impartiality that CCCS claim to have. They mention no ther solution than DMP, and are promising creditors a better return. Why? so they can earn more commission. It stinks. CCCS receive, I believe, around an 11% "dividend" or "donation" on what they collect. Meaning nigh on £3 Million per month in fees. Why on earth would they recommend anything other than DMP? And GD2 is right BTW, CCCS WILL turn you away, though they may say they won't. Search this whole forum for people who have written that they were refused help from CCCS, there are hundreds on here. Or, search for those that were advised DMP when it will take 10, 20, 30 years or more. Probably thousands.

    Mat, and the others, may believe what they are fed, but the reality is so much different. I have always said that actions speak much louder than words, and my advice to anyone would be to speak to Payplan, CAB, National Debtline. Anyone but CCCS.

    If you want to pay your creditors as much as you can then do it direct, don't let these money grabbers earn their commission. Maybe, as more people (and creditors who pass them 10,000 leads per week)are cottoning on to them, that is why they are going tobe directly advertising at,great expense,to replace the captured market monopoly that they have hitherto enjoyed. Maybe that is why this "debt myth" thread has appeared. The only debt myth here is that CCCS is impartial.

    Hi Lorraine,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Truly excellent post, confirming my suspicions of CCCS. Sadly, I suspect any other creditor-funded 'charities' operate in a similar fashion.

    Like you say though, I am sure that many employees of such organisations truly believe they are giving impartial advice, but ultimately, they are plugging your information into a computer program, and if 'computer says no' then I suspect that's the advice you are given.
  • GD2_2
    GD2_2 Posts: 53 Forumite
    As someone who is not shy of asking awkward questions which rarely seem to get get answered, I would just go on record to say that I feel that there is a world of difference between CAB, National Debtline and the CCCS. In my own opinion, 2 are there to help, 1 is there in an attempt to corner the market. 1 IP for 10,000 plus enquiries a week? Quite remarkable, even Melanie Giles has 2 and I doubt they have 10,000 enquiries in a year. What does that tell you? Nothing if you choose to ignore it, even less if you are happy to follow the flock.

    I would exclude Payplan here by the way as they are quite upfront that they are a business, but despite that still provide free (to client anyway) DMP's. What isn't to like about that? No smoke, no mirrors, just transparency. I have yet to see any debate on Payplans business practices, but I see many comments (mine included, accept that) that question CCCS, whether they like it or not.
  • GD2 wrote: »
    As someone who is not shy of asking awkward questions which rarely seem to get get answered, I would just go on record to say that I feel that there is a world of difference between CAB, National Debtline and the CCCS. In my own opinion, 2 are there to help, 1 is there in an attempt to corner the market. 1 IP for 10,000 plus enquiries a week? Quite remarkable, even Melanie Giles has 2 and I doubt they have 10,000 enquiries in a year. What does that tell you? Nothing if you choose to ignore it, even less if you are happy to follow the flock.

    I would exclude Payplan here by the way as they are quite upfront that they are a business, but despite that still provide free (to client anyway) DMP's. What isn't to like about that? No smoke, no mirrors, just transparency. I have yet to see any debate on Payplans business practices, but I see many comments (mine included, accept that) that question CCCS, whether they like it or not.

    When we selected a DMP provider, I didn't like the look of Payplan for several reasons:

    1) Too many posts here about people thinking they were close to the end of their DMP then suddenly finding they had thousands of pounds of interest added and years more to pay. Am not sure why but they all seemed to be Payplan clients.

    2) Selling of financial products such as insurance and PPI to DMP clients.

    3) Practice of suggesting clients stop paying creditors a few months before DMP ends and instead saving up for F&Fs. Why stir up a hornet's nest so close to the end.

    There were a few more but can't think of them right now and this post will probably be removed before anyone reads it :o
    LBM 10/1/12 ~ DFW Start 6/2/12: £82,344 ~ Now Zero
    :staradmin:starmod::staradmin Debt free 17th April 2015 :staradmin:starmod::staradmin
    Eternal thanks to the DMP & Mutual Support (no.439) and Payment a Day Threads
    Mortgage free 3rd July 2014 - Grateful thanks to the 2013/14 MFW threads
    "Debt is normal. Be weird!" Dave Ramsey
    Proud to have dealt with our debt :)
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards