storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

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  • jawa1
    jawa1 Posts: 233 Forumite
    A friend had a really bad house fire at 3am in the morning last march. It was caused by the storage heater overheating and I think the thermos failing.

    The storage heater was 15+ years old.

    The fire investigating officer said this it quite a common occurrence, (but he could have meant that storage heaters in general cause fires i.e clothes left on them rather than overheating and bursting into flames as what happened to a friend)

    Do not mean to worry anyone, but if you have a old storage heater I would research into them more.
  • Cardew wrote: »
    The Fifas boiler again uses daytime electricity - it is NOT a storage heating system.

    It cannot be repeated often enough - any form of heat output costs the same if you use electricity. There is no 'magic' electrical system that somehow produces more heat per buck.(other than a heat pump)

    A £15 fan heater in each room will produce exactly the same amount of heat per pound(£) spent as the Fifas system. In fact you could argue that fan heaters are more efficient as you get instant heat and when you switch them off you don't have residual heat - which could be wasted if you were leaving the room.

    The website for Fifas is totally misleading IMO. Firstly they price their electricity for comparison purposes at 6.05p/kWh(+£52pa standing charge) - compare that with any available tariff now.

    Then they calculate they can heat a house and provide domestic hot water for a total consumption of 7,631kWh a year. As said in an earlier post you would be lucky to get away with 3 times that amount for a 3 bed bungalow in Scotland.

    If you are going down the electrical heating route; then the only sensible system must be storage heating of some kind.

    However if you have gas it is a 'no brainer' to have this over any system that runs on daytime electricity.


    Thanks Cardew - I am in the process of moving to Inverness hence the gas query. . . Regards
  • Mogz
    Mogz Posts: 22 Forumite
    I am in the same boat:

    4 electric oil radiant panels on 4 separate circuits in my 2 bed ground floor maisonette.

    I have added an electric towel rail in the bathroom which previously had NO HEATING. Imagine taking a shower! ITs much better now of course.

    So I was thinking about room temperature shutoffs at each rad, but then discovered that in midwinter, they arent capable of bringing my house up to temperature properly unless left on for 2 or 3 hours - so whats the point of shutoffs....really? I dont tend to program my heatig to be on for more than 1.5 hours anyway...its too expensive.

    I cant afford 3.5 grand for gas central heating + connection, so im spending £1000 on a wood burning stove in the lounge. Since the fireplace needs doing anyway, its the difference between 100 for an inefficient smelly, smokey open fire and 800 for a wood burner to be installed.

    I have double glazing, cavity walls (without insulation), and no rads in the kitchen or toilet.

    Would you think this stove will do the job to tip the balance in my favour?

    Its a nightmare with electric heating......although I recall gas central heating in a flat in manchester being pretty darn expensive too in winter. - It was on a meter and you literally see the money slipping form your hands to keep the place warm.

    Also can you get electric combi boilers and are they worth bothering about?

    many thanks for a most enlightening and intersting thread
  • Mogz
    Mogz Posts: 22 Forumite
    Jo.G wrote: »
    I'm glad this thread keeps going! At the moment I'm paying £129 a month to Powergen and on my last bill I still owed them money. I havent had the storage heaters on all over summer even though its been quite chilly some days and hopefully my next bill wont be so bad. Once winter starts, I'll have to use my electric fire in the living room because when I got someone out to fix them, I was told the storage heater in there isnt working properly. Unfortunately, the quote was a couple of hundred quid + fitting & VAT! As we'd need to get a loan out to replace the storage heaters and add extras, I'm thinking we'd be better to bite the bullet, borrow a lot more and go for gas.

    in the long run you're right, but on a temporary note, I'm sure if you ask around, a friend will happily help replace your storage heater with one you can buy off the web for a lot less than £200.

    It's literally - pull out necessary fuse - 4 screws to fit new rad - and 3 terminals to connect up the power. If you're not sure what you're doing dont try it yourself though - as a poor earth connection could cause the rad to be live.:eek:
  • Anyone got an idea how a solid fuel system compares to electric? I've got a coal fired ch/system, which costs anywhere in the region of £50-65 to heat the radiators during the winter. Obviously, there are no costs during the summer. My hot water is heated by an immersion heater, and my electric bill has just gone up to £75 p/month. I have a 3 bed semi, and there are 5 of us living there.
    Whilst the solid fuel system is very warm (too warm sometimes), it is inconvenient, dirty (dust and ash everywhere) and time consuming to operate. I was wondering about using panel or oil filled radiators as an alternative, especially as the upstairs rooms with the chimney breast get so warm the radiator is permanently off in there.
    I've discussed with my coalman which fuel is most efficient, but we're in a smokeless area, which restricts us.
    I'm in a rented property, there's no gas in the village; newer properties have oil fired, which I had in my previous house, but was also very expensive.

    Stick with the coal as it's already there, and still cheaper?
    One day the clocks will stop, and time won't mean a thing

    Be nice to your children, they'll choose your care home
  • Hi all

    This is my first post on the forums. I've been following this thread, as we need to replace our heating, which is currently all-electric old storage heaters.

    I looked on USwitch.com and put in our details:

    *pay by monthly direct debit
    *average home insulation (2nd floor, we have double glazing, not sure whether we have cavity wall insulation)
    *evening & weekend electricity use (working couple, out all day)
    *cook most nights
    *1 bedroom flat with 2 people living in it

    Then compared all-electric results with gas heating & cooking results.

    With our current energy supplier (Southern Electric, RSPB Energy), the all-electric estimate was surprisingly cheaper (£290pa) compared to the gas heating & cooking estimate (£366pa for gas + electric).

    Do these estimates sound about right for a 1 bedroom flat? Not sure how much you can rely on USwitch's estimates.

    The reviews of storage heaters don't sound that great, but seem to be so much cheaper to install (our flat doesn't have gas, although there is a supply to the block), and then I presume that they're greener in that the electricity can be supplied by renewable sources.

    So currently things seem to be moving towards storage heating - probably not in the bedroom though, as I can't stand sleeping in warm stuffy rooms - do new modern storage heaters emit heat when they're heating up overnight?

    I was considering the Kalirel system, but am having second thoughts now after reading this thread (particularly Cardew's posts).
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    Hi all

    This is my first post on the forums. I've been following this thread, as we need to replace our heating, which is currently all-electric old storage heaters.

    I looked on USwitch.com and put in our details:

    *pay by monthly direct debit
    *average home insulation (2nd floor, we have double glazing, not sure whether we have cavity wall insulation)
    *evening & weekend electricity use (working couple, out all day)
    *cook most nights
    *1 bedroom flat with 2 people living in it

    Then compared all-electric results with gas heating & cooking results.

    With our current energy supplier (Southern Electric, RSPB Energy), the all-electric estimate was surprisingly cheaper (£290pa) compared to the gas heating & cooking estimate (£366pa for gas + electric).

    Do these estimates sound about right for a 1 bedroom flat? Not sure how much you can rely on USwitch's estimates.

    The reviews of storage heaters don't sound that great, but seem to be so much cheaper to install (our flat doesn't have gas, although there is a supply to the block), and then I presume that they're greener in that the electricity can be supplied by renewable sources.

    So currently things seem to be moving towards storage heating - probably not in the bedroom though, as I can't stand sleeping in warm stuffy rooms - do new modern storage heaters emit heat when they're heating up overnight?

    I was considering the Kalirel system, but am having second thoughts now after reading this thread (particularly Cardew's posts).

    I would totally ignore USwitch in this case.

    Your figures sound too low to me.

    When you take into account the cost of gas servicing there probably isn't much to chose in costs between Gas CH and night storage heating on Economy 7 for smaller properties; and as you state storage heater systems are much cheaper to install.

    That said Gas CH is light years ahead of storage heating in the flexibility it provides, and will undoubtedly enhance the value of your proprty. So if you can afford to instal gas - IMO it is much the better option.

    The Kalirel system website is full of the usual rubbish designed to obfuscate. - see post #21.

    It cannot be said often enough; all forms of electrical heating* are 100% efficient and so produce exactly the same amount of heat for 1kWh of electricity - be it a 50 year old 1 bar electric fire like granny used, or the most hyped up modern electrical CH system.

    I am quite serious when I say that you might as well get a 3kW fan heater for each room(costing £10 each) rather than install any electrical system that uses daytime rate electricity.

    * except Heat pumps which cost huge money to install(£15,000?)
  • If your house is not well insulated, then adding loft insulation and cavity wall insulation is the best way to save money on heating bills, especially with electric where the running costs are higher. It is not that expensive and will pay for itself in 1 to 3 years, grants are available if you have a low income or are on benefits.
    Replacing old single glazed windows with double glazed is helpful too, but not cheap.

    I am not a fan of storage heaters. I lived in a place with old ones and they were terrible, expensive to run, heating the rooms up over night and not enough heat the next evening. New ones should be better but I would still avoid them.
    If you are replacing old storage heaters beware that some made before the early 70's contain asbestos insulation. So before taking them apart to take the bricks out check with the manufacturer.
  • Can I add my question as there seem to be lots of knowledgable people about!
    Have bought a 3-bed semi which has no heating except an electric fire in the living room. There is no gas in the village. We are thinking about installing an oil tank and oil central heating, or alternatively using some kind of electric heating (unknown!) Any thoughts or advice? Thanks!
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    Electrical storage heating on an Economy 7(or Economy 10) tariff is the only electrical system that has reasonable installation costs and reasonable running costs.

    Storage heating does have disadvantages over the 'conventional' radiator type CH. Although the modern storage heating systems are much better by all accounts than those of yesteryear.

    It will certainly much cheaper than oil CH to install and also cheaper to run.

    A word of caution. There are all sorts of electrical heating systems that are not storage heating and claim to be super-efficient - they ain't!!
    Ensure you look at storage heating systems.
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