Income Support, DLA(PIP) & Atos - Story, Advice & Information
Comments
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Lets play trumps shell me?
I have autistic spectrum disorder, Bipolar 2, ADHA, Learning disability, eg.... I'm with the community learning disability team. Been sectioned four time in LD hospitals. Receive all the relevant benefits. I win! But am so worried about this PIP suggestion.
And in my opinion you have every reason to be worried over this new PIP system and annual/regular assessments to check on your needs. Even if it is only the forms that you will have to complete.
By the way, you win that hand!!LOL.
But to be honest I am not that far behind you and I don't get any benefits except ESA Support Group!! Did have HRC & LRM and 80% IIDB up until 8 + years ago. That is until I signed a seriously flawed medical report carried out by ATOS - (the doctor even wrote that he had never heard that Lithium was used for the treatment of Mental health issues!!!)
!!!!!! is it given out for then - ingrowing toenails??0 -
Likewise with my ESA50! But for some unknown reason when you apply for IIDB and when you have your medical, the assessor writes down (or should) (on form BI118a) your explanation word for word, of how the accident happened, what injury you sustained, medication taken and medical opinions given. The assessor then continues to fill out the form and writes his opinion on the back page (page 6). You are then handed the completed 6 page form and told that you must sign and date it to demonstrate that the contents are a true and accurate assessment of the condition/illness/disability. He assures you that he has put everything down as you have said it and that there is nothing untoward in it, other than what has been discussed.
Sitting there you either take the form, read through 6 pages of notes/opinions etc before signing it (that's if you are fit enough!), or like me, sign the thing trusting that the assessor has been honest with you.
The only time you get to really digest the report is when (and if) you ask for a copy of it after you have failed the ATOS assessment.
Bit late then to find out that what has been put in the report is not exactly what you thought had been written. You can't very well argue that the signature isn't yours - you are stuffed!!!
Is this going to be the way forward with ALL assessments, for ALL benefits to be carried out by ATOS in the future?
It will certainly cut down the number of possible appeals!!
Or maybe we should refuse to sign until we have had the chance to read the document fully? Can't see that being acceptable to either ATOS or the DWP. Claimants taking away the medical assessment and possibly not returning it or arguing the toss about some of the contents before they sign it.
I can't see a copy of the BI118a on the internet and don't know how to show my copy of it on here - sorry.
As ATOS almost 100 percent certainly in that situation will not let you have a copy of the report to take away and digest in your own time, and again will almost certainly pressure you if you say you want to sit there and spend ages reading it, I think you have grounds for a complaint against the doctor to the GMC.
No doctor should make you feel pressured to sign, and I can confirm ATOS does put people under pressure to sign documents.
At least, they certainly have with me before.[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
As ATOS almost 100 percent certainly in that situation will not let you have a copy of the report to take away and digest in your own time, and again will almost certainly pressure you if you say you want to sit there and spend ages reading it, I think you have grounds for a complaint against the doctor to the GMC.
No doctor should make you feel pressured to sign, and I can confirm ATOS does put people under pressure to sign documents.
At least, they certainly have with me before.
Oh, so I am not alone then.
As for signing these wretched reports, what was yours for. As you know the one I am referring to was Industrial Injury Disablement Benefit. Do they do this now with other benefits as well?
People just don't seem to believe that the assessor does put pressure on you to sign the reports to confirm that what they have written is true and complete.
Then that report is used to refuse another benefit (DLA in my case)
There doesn't seem to be a way out of this. I'm not at all happy having to sign something that I haven't got the time to read thoroughly, but that is how it is now. A very clever way of using it against you.
How can you appeal against a report that some months earlier I signed as being correct at the time. Then trying to tell a Tribunal that you didn't read it because you were told that there is no need to!
It is far too late now to complain or appeal - this all happened in 2004 ish.
But the report still stands as evidence albeit a bit outdated and will certainly be used by another assessor if and when I try to claim anything in the future.
"oh I see you had mental health problems before 2004, then you became much better. Then you are saying that nothing improved at all and that you are no better now than you were in 2000?
Could you please then explain why the report in front of me says otherwise and that you agreed in 2004 that there was little wrong with you?"
"Umm, the doctor put pressure on me and made me sign that form!"
"And there are 15 yellow pigs flying over Eastbourne right now?"0 -
Have you been sectioned since 2004? Some people get better from mental illness but some people don't. If you can prove that you mental health has deteriorated since that report in 2004 you could reapply for DLA and have actual proof of disability and start a fresh claim based on your symptoms now. You say you take Lithium? I guess you have bipolar? If I stop taking my meds my thoughts become rapid, my speech fast, eg. I become poorly, I get sectioned. Do you get my daft?
Thanks
Yes once a few months after the decision and another in early 2005.
Yes I know I could reapply now, I could have reaplied at any time after 2004, but my condition is not any worse than it was in 2004, and it is no different than it was in 2000 when I was in receipt of DLA - HRC & LRM! It is the same as it was in 2004.
That is my problem. being that there is no difference, and yet I lost all of my DLA because of that report I signed a few months earlier for another benefit, on what grounds do I have to make another DLA claim?
They would just say that as there is no difference now than there was in 2004, AND in 2004 a DWP doctor stated in a report for another benefit that I DID NOT have any mental health issues which I was 'forced' to sign as being correct, then how can I now be saying that I do have issues?
Either way it is going to make me look stupid if I end up trying to argue that what I signed for in 2004 as being correct was actually not correct! If that was the case - why did I sign it?
BP is one of the issues amongst many others for which I take Lithium and many other drugs. I was actually taking the same level of Lithium at the time of the assessment in 2004, for which the doctor said he had never heard of people taking Lithium for a mental illness!!0 -
Wottonby, I would of fought tooth and nail if they stopped my DLA, I would of been more then vocal saying I signed the form under duress at the time not fully understanding what I was signing. From 2004 to now you're lost around £29 grand in payments. I would be furious at that. Why didn't you challenge it? Do you have any support of social services?
I was ill, and not able to deal with anything at the time.
I didn't even care to be honest, I just didn't have the fight in me.
It was not until recently that I found out the reasons why I lost the DLA and the 80% IIDB. By which time it was far too late to do anything about it.
£29,000?? More like £54,600!!!!
DLA + IIDB + ICA
I have to accept what happened. Trying to resolve it now is almost as impossible with this damn report still floating around. I only found out last week that the 2004 is still valid when I got a copy of it from the DWP!!
Yes I used to have a social worker - about as much use as a .......!!
With the cuts and everything that has now gone. I do have one at the CMHT, but she is so overworked it is impossible to get hold of her.
No, to be honest I'm on my ownsome with this one!
My CPN & OT has tried to get into contact with various agencies and charities but they are also too busy to take on my particular case.
It's a warning to everyone - NEVER be BULLIED by the DWP/ATOS into signing ANY medical report if you don't want to!!!!0 -
Oh, so I am not alone then.
As for signing these wretched reports, what was yours for. As you know the one I am referring to was Industrial Injury Disablement Benefit. Do they do this now with other benefits as well?
People just don't seem to believe that the assessor does put pressure on you to sign the reports to confirm that what they have written is true and complete.
Then that report is used to refuse another benefit (DLA in my case)
There doesn't seem to be a way out of this. I'm not at all happy having to sign something that I haven't got the time to read thoroughly, but that is how it is now. A very clever way of using it against you.
How can you appeal against a report that some months earlier I signed as being correct at the time. Then trying to tell a Tribunal that you didn't read it because you were told that there is no need to!
It is far too late now to complain or appeal - this all happened in 2004 ish.
But the report still stands as evidence albeit a bit outdated and will certainly be used by another assessor if and when I try to claim anything in the future.
"oh I see you had mental health problems before 2004, then you became much better. Then you are saying that nothing improved at all and that you are no better now than you were in 2000?
Could you please then explain why the report in front of me says otherwise and that you agreed in 2004 that there was little wrong with you?"
"Umm, the doctor put pressure on me and made me sign that form!"
"And there are 15 yellow pigs flying over Eastbourne right now?"
The form they basically forced me to sign was a form stating I would not use the recording of the assessment for anything other than benefit entitlement purposes. It restricted me from using it for the media, youtube, or as I even asked complaining to the GMC!
They said I "had to" sign it....
That was for ESA.
They are meant to offer you a copy of the report for ALL assessments for benefit entitlement purposes or insurance related purposes (I have checked with the GMC this does include IB and ESA medicals) so you can check it for errors before it is sent to the DWP.
They do not do this for ESA or IB, and as such are in breach of GMC rules.[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
The form they basically forced me to sign was a form stating I would not use the recording of the assessment for anything other than benefit entitlement purposes. It restricted me from using it for the media, youtube, or as I even asked complaining to the GMC!
They said I "had to" sign it....
That was for ESA.
They are meant to offer you a copy of the report for ALL assessments for benefit entitlement purposes or insurance related purposes (I have checked with the GMC this does include IB and ESA medicals) so you can check it for errors before it is sent to the DWP.
They do not do this for ESA or IB, and as such are in breach of GMC rules.
The more I hear and the more I read on here is making me realise just how underhand, dishonest and deceitful the DWP are together with their Medical Services (ATOS). Would they stop at nothing in order to ensure that people do not get their due entitlement?
It seems that they put up obstacles to refuse any claim if there is the slightest possibility that they can get away with it.
I feel like I have an axe hovering above my head all of the time, knowing that all those years ago I made a mistake in signing something without reading it.
Then there is you that cannot make public anything that they do with you! I thought that we were living in a free country, a place where care, understanding, consideration and empathy is given to those that are least able to look after themselves.
Instead I find a system that is geared to cause the maximum amount of distress.
I feel like swearing but I know it will be banned on here, but honestly where the f**k do we go to get the help we need without being made to feel 3rd class citizens that are looking for a free ride.
I'm shafted from making any further disability claims and have been for over 7 years, knowing what the result will be and knowing what the DWP will use against me.
You are shafted from speaking out about the injustice that you have endured.
How much more are we supposed to take.
Back to the original topic of this thread, new benefits in name only to make it more difficult to claim, the poorest in this society that are made to feel awful for daring to claim and a corrupt government department that is set up to make it as difficult as it can to make a genuine, yes I mean genuine, claim and know that it will be considered without reference to past reports, comments and failures.
Where am I getting some of these ideas and comments from? The Social Workers and CPN's at my local hospital that look after the most needy of society. If that is what they believe, what chance the rest of us?
GGGRRRR!!! No wonder that the DWP have done away with open offices where you could go to discuss your claims etc.They are too frightened to discuss matters face to face with irate and distressed members of the public.0 -
I could be wrong, but I thought DLA claims were based on how you were NOW, based on the information on your forms NOW. I'm just wondering therefore if it wouldn't be worth wottonby re-applying, with help from Welfare Rights or similar, and whether any reference would be made to the previous reports?
And I'm also wondering what they could do about it if, faced with this "sign here" pressure, you wrote "Signed under duress without having been given time to read this" before signing. Or, at the very least "I have not been give sufficient time to read this report, but have been required to sign. I reserve the right to challenge any inaccuracies I find once I receive a copy."
Just thoughts ...Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
I could be wrong, but I thought DLA claims were based on how you were NOW, based on the information on your forms NOW. I'm just wondering therefore if it wouldn't be worth wottonby re-applying, with help from Welfare Rights or similar, and whether any reference would be made to the previous reports?
Yes that is how it should be. Unfortunately, I am claiming because of the needs I have resulting from the same condition I had when that report was signed by me in 2004.
So the DWP see it that that report is very relevant even though it is 7 years old!
They even had a copy of it in my ESA appeal pack that went to the Tribunal last year.
And I'm also wondering what they could do about it if, faced with this "sign here" pressure, you wrote "Signed under duress without having been given time to read this" before signing. Or, at the very least "I have not been give sufficient time to read this report, but have been required to sign. I reserve the right to challenge any inaccuracies I find once I receive a copy."
I entirely agree, but I don't think that doing that would be allowed. I will of course bear it in mind if I do put in a claim for IIDB again as it is a requirement of the medical assessment carried out by ATOS that the report must be signed by me before it goes to the DWP decision maker. If you have access to any DWP forms - the form number is BI 118 (a).
Just thoughts ...
To save my time in filling out these forms and finding that they are blocked by this old report, it would be good to know if the DWP are actually allowed to use a 7 year old report for a claim made for the same condition in 2011. If they are allowed, then I will not waste my time filling them out (IIDB & DLA).
Any ideas?0 -
If you are seriously asking if they are allowed, then the answer is yes, because they can use whatever evidence they consider is relevant, will they use it, who knows, you'll only find out by applying for DLA.To save my time in filling out these forms and finding that they are blocked by this old report, it would be good to know if the DWP are actually allowed to use a 7 year old report for a claim made for the same condition in 2011. If they are allowed, then I will not waste my time filling them out (IIDB & DLA).
Any ideas?
If you have evidence that is six months old (do you?) and all they can find is something that is 7 years old then it is not very compelling, you got into the ESA Support Group, you have to assume if the report was relevant they would have used it then.0
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