storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

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  • We had our heaters tested to provide data and quantifiable running costs for consumers and organisations as I have mentioned before. No we did not have other peoples heaters tested, that would be never ending. Even Dimplex have not had efficiency testing conducted on any of their products.
    We can only present the facts on our product and leave the rest up to the consumer and the organisations involved.
    The energy saving trust have never tested or evaluated any electric heating for an energy rating, but it looks like that's coming and we have provided our data to get the ball rolling.
    Lets agree to leave it up to them and the various other organisations such as BRE who are also evaluating the system as we speak.
  • nick74
    nick74 Posts: 829
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    So what basis have you for claiming your heaters are cheaper to run than storage heaters?
  • the calculation of storage heater costs has to be theoretical, where as ours are proved. The other reason is many customer testimonials about cost savings where they have run both systems, having been unhappy with the night storage and changed to ours.
  • nick74
    nick74 Posts: 829
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    Electrorad wrote: »
    the calculation of storage heater costs has to be theoretical

    So it could be totally wrong then?

    In other words, your heaters are cheaper to run than some figures you made up on no scientific basis whatsoever?
  • amtrakuk
    amtrakuk Posts: 630 Forumite
    I cant see how one heater can be cheaper to run than the other if they are both on the same tariff. If it is stored heat (storage) then there is the chance the house is being heated when you dont get the benefit due to being out the house. If you have instantaneous heating (fan/convection heater) then, ok you come into a cold room but you benefit for the heat you're paying for as it warms up.

    I guess its down to what type of heating you want.
  • nick74
    nick74 Posts: 829
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    amtrakuk wrote: »
    I cant see how one heater can be cheaper to run than the other if they are both on the same tariff.

    They can't, not with electric heaters anyway.

    There are valid points about the problems associated with storage heaters, but an important factor to consider is that it doesn't use twice as much energy to heat a room for 24 hours as it does for 12 hours.
    Storage heaters do start to cool in the evening, but with a well insulated house this is not so much of a problem. It certainly cannot be assumed that it will be necessary to have additional heaters drawing power for the remaining 12 hours at the peak rate!
  • amtrakuk
    amtrakuk Posts: 630 Forumite
    Sorry Nick

    Was only thinking for me. I'm out the house alot and therefor don't need heating while Im out and about. I generally find coming home and turning the heaters on when I need it in the evenings works better for me. After about an hour my front room has warmed up from typically 13 degrees to 22 degrees and the heater kicks on and off to keep it at that temp.
  • nick74
    nick74 Posts: 829
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    amtrakuk wrote: »
    Sorry Nick

    Was only thinking for me. I'm out the house alot and therefor don't need heating while Im out and about. I generally find coming home and turning the heaters on when I need it in the evenings works better for me. After about an hour my front room has warmed up from typically 13 degrees to 22 degrees and the heater kicks on and off to keep it at that temp.

    Yes if you're out of the house a lot it can make more sense to have heating "on demand". I wasn't directing that particularly at you, more at the assumptions made by Electrorad in their comparison of costs of different systems heating a room over 24 hours.
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    Electrorad wrote: »
    The ASA have approved 'running costs of 4p per hour' for our 2kw heater. In the living room this heater was tested in, a 3.4kw night store would be specified (Dimplex heating design tables). At full charge if economy 7 is costing 3p per kwh that's 10.2p per hour. At half charge 5.1p per hour.

    That makes our heater considerably cheaper to run than the night storage heater!

    Please please tell me you are not being serious with that statement.

    Let me spell it out to you where it is completely wrong and doubtless designed to mislead.

    Let us assume, to make the maths easy, that daytime electricity costs 10p/kWh and Economy 7 costs 3p/kWh to use your figure.

    So for your heater to cost 4p an hour it is using an average of 400w(0.4kWh)
    Thus in 24 hours it uses 9.6kWh and costs 96p.

    The 3.4kW storage heater assuming it could take a full charge for 7 hours would indeed cost 10.2p for 7 hours a total of 71.4p. This means it would have used 23.8kWh

    However it would have produced 2.48 times more heat than your system and yet cost 24p less.

    So storage heating produces 2.48 times more heat for 26% less money - yet you maintain your system is cheaper!!!

    If the storage heater were to only use 96p worth of electricity it will still have produced over 3 times as much heat as your heater.

    Even if a storage heater had to use ancillary heating during the day, either from a built in fan heater, or indeed from the main heating element, it is still producing heat at exactly the same cost as your overpriced system.

    So any heat produced by the storage heater from Economy 7 costs less than a third of the cost of your device, and any extra heat it needs is produced at exactly the same cost as your device.

    You know, I know, and anyone with an ounce of technical knowledge is fully aware that your ‘system’ does not have any cost advantage in producing heat than any other form of electrical heating and is considerably more expensive in producing heat than storage heating or heat pumps.

    If someone doesn’t want storage heating, they should buy oil filled radiators at £30 each and they will cost exactly the same to run as your system costing what? (£thousands?)

    If your system will heat this theoretical room for 4p an hour, so will an oil filled radiator; and a storage heater for much less.

    Now tell me where I am wrong!
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    amtrakuk wrote: »
    Sorry Nick

    Was only thinking for me. I'm out the house alot and therefor don't need heating while Im out and about. I generally find coming home and turning the heaters on when I need it in the evenings works better for me. After about an hour my front room has warmed up from typically 13 degrees to 22 degrees and the heater kicks on and off to keep it at that temp.

    As Nick said the advantage of electrical heating is the flexibility it has for ‘on demand’ applications.

    Oil filled radiators slow to warm up but with residual heat.

    Fan heaters and granny’s 1/2/3 bar fire giving ‘instant’ heat but no residual heat.

    Infra-red heaters having the ability to ‘direct’ heat. A pal of mine works a lot at a bench in a huge unheated garage and simply directs the ‘beam’ of heat at himself.

    The most important point to make however, is that no electrical heating system(other than heat pumps) produces any more heat for your ‘dollar’ than any other system – and that includes all the vastly overpriced systems that are ‘pushed’ on this money saving website by disingenuous salesmen.
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