SW Trains - caught without ticket
Comments
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It is still unclear to me whether or not you actually paid for the journey you made or not? Is the fare still unpaid?jessiejane1986 wrote: »I did have money for a paper ticket, I only had a £5 note in cash but it was due to running for the train that I didn't buy a ticket.0 -
Then what you signed can not be used in evidence if you signed at the top and information was written below your signature, thought they had to be some !!!! up somewhere.
This form they have sent , does it have the word "understand" on it in some form of declaration
No it doesn't have that written anywhere on the letter, is that good or bad?
I think he drew a line under someone else's details then started to question me. It was a small pocket notepad, and my questions/answers went over 3 pages. I signed the top of the 3rd page, possibly under one question, it wasn't just my signature on that page. When I left there was nothing else written underneath my signature.
The letter states 'a person giving the above name & address was questioned by a member of rail staff about an incident that occurred whilst on stagecoach'. It doesn't state what the offence was, obviously I know but does it matter?0 -
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jessiejane1986 wrote: »That's going to look really bad isn't it.
Have you ever had a penalty fare before or is the first time you've been in trouble with TfL. If it's a first offence, then the groveling letter is your best way forward, might cost you but it will save you the hassle of court and possible criminal record.Whoa! This image violates our terms of use and has been removed from view0 -
The best thing you can do with ANY ticket inspector (in any case) is:
1. just walk away
2. if you can't walk away (eg, police) then
3. say nothing
4. say nothing
5. say nothing
6. repeat from point 1
If you were suspected of committing an offence - under PACE you have to be given a caution "you do not have to say anything, but if you do not mention when questioned.. etc", and this would have to be recoreded in the little book - otherwise evidence from questioning could be inadmissible in court.
Did you receive a caution, as described above?
It would seem to be impossible for you to be prosecuted for fare evasion with intent to avoid payment, as if you touched in this would have been recorded on your oystercard and the central database.
Could be prosecuted for byelaw offences0 -
newfoundglory wrote: »The best thing you can do with any ticket inspector (in any case) is:
1. just walk away
2. if you can't walk away (eg, police) then
3. say nothing
4. say nothing
5. say nothing
6. repeat from point 1
Technically, if you were suspected of committing an offence - under you have to be given a caution "you do not have to say anything, but if you do not mention.. etc", and this would have to be recoreded in the little book - otherwise evidence from questioning could be inadmissible in court.
Did you receive a caution, as described above?
It would seem to be impossible for you to be prosecuted for fare evasion with intent to avoid payment, as if you touched in this would have been recorded on your oystercard and the central database.
Can I ask for their record of the offence? As it was 4 months ago now I can't remember if I was cautioned, I think not though as he did say to me it was just a warning and didn't show a badge.
I didn't touch in, I was going to top up and tap out but afterwards I felt sick and wanted to just go home. My friend persuaded me to go to work rather than home to work but I never actually paid for the journey, which I didn't even realise until Yorkie just asked me.0 -
You should remember if you were cautioned, as you should have been asked if you understood it?0
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You don't HAVE to be cautioned at all, for a prosecution to go ahead. Not all staff are PACE trained.newfoundglory wrote: »The best thing you can do with ANY ticket inspector (in any case) is:
1. just walk away
2. if you can't walk away (eg, police) then
3. say nothing
4. say nothing
5. say nothing
6. repeat from point 1
If you were suspected of committing an offence - under PACE you have to be given a caution "you do not have to say anything, but if you do not mention when questioned.. etc", and this would have to be recoreded in the little book - otherwise evidence from questioning could be inadmissible in court.
Did you receive a caution, as described above?
It would seem to be impossible for you to be prosecuted for fare evasion with intent to avoid payment, as if you touched in this would have been recorded on your oystercard and the central database.
Could be prosecuted for byelaw offences
You are right in what you say, but if you try to walk away without giving your name and address, that could be seen as refusing to provide your name and address (obviously), and that being the case, rail staff do have a power of detention under S.5(2) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, until the offender can be brought before reasonable justice (the Police). The fact that staff don't use this power is because of their company, not the lawfulness of such action. Once you have supplied your name and address, you can walk off and that is your right.
Also, notes dont have to be signed to be used as evidence.0 -
newfoundglory wrote: »You should remember if you were cautioned, as you should have been asked if you understood it?
I really don't remember, it was a while ago. I think I wasn't cautioned though, as I also wasn't shown a badge and I thought the 2 needed to be done together. But I can't remember as it honestly did stress me out and worry/upset me for days afterwards. All of that is back now. I know not really relevant but I have depression and the worry of getting convicted & losing my job is making is making it worse, do you think I should mention that in my reply to see if they'll allow it to settle out of court or do you think they will look at this as almost emotional blackmail?0 -
Livingthedream wrote: »Have you ever had a penalty fare before or is the first time you've been in trouble with TfL. If it's a first offence, then the groveling letter is your best way forward, might cost you but it will save you the hassle of court and possible criminal record.
I can only send 1 message every hour so cannot respond but that's fine. Thank you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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