MSE News: NS&I inflation-beating savings: stick or twist?

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  • cepheus
    cepheus Posts: 20,053 Forumite
    redmalc wrote: »
    Hi I have earnt £915 interest since May 2011 on 15K,better than the best accounts on offer at the moment

    Or to put it another way, you have just exceeded inflation by a morsel! With most other accounts your savings would be worth less in real terms than when you invested it!
  • Masomnia
    Masomnia Posts: 19,506 Forumite
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    Hmm, what could you have got on a 1 year fix ISA last year? I guess that's the only really useful comparison.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    Masomnia wrote: »
    Hmm, what could you have got on a 1 year fix ISA last year? I guess that's the only really useful comparison.
    You're right, it only makes sense to compare what you got then with what you could have got then elsewhere, instead of what you got then with what you could get now elsewhere.

    Both have 'opportunity costs' though, if you don't have enough cash to max out all your opportunities. If you put your money into an ISA and miss an NSANDI issue, which may not be available next year, you need to consider all the future years' inflation-linked returns which might been made available through re-investment, over the next few decades.

    If instead you go for an inflation link from NSANDI, and don't get to use this year's cash ISA allowance, you may miss out on the ability to invest those funds within an ISA wrapper in a market leading interest rate somewhere down the line, or indeed a great S&S ISA opportunity in some future year
  • Masomnia
    Masomnia Posts: 19,506 Forumite
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    bowlhead99 wrote: »
    You're right, it only makes sense to compare what you got then with what you could have got then elsewhere, instead of what you got then with what you could get now elsewhere.

    Both have 'opportunity costs' though, if you don't have enough cash to max out all your opportunities. If you put your money into an ISA and miss an NSANDI issue, which may not be available next year, you need to consider all the future years' inflation-linked returns which might been made available through re-investment, over the next few decades.

    If instead you go for an inflation link from NSANDI, and don't get to use this year's cash ISA allowance, you may miss out on the ability to invest those funds within an ISA wrapper in a market leading interest rate somewhere down the line, or indeed a great S&S ISA opportunity in some future year

    Completely agree, diversification is key.

    The fact that inflation is running ahead of NS&I certificates now is kind of immaterial because you won't know whether you'd have got a better return until a year's time when it has happened. The best thing you can do imho is put a bit in both. The NS&I ILSCs are a hedge against inflation, not a silver bullet for the best returns.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    edited 14 November 2012 at 8:04AM
    Our currency devalues all the time, so you can get back more than you deposit with a bank or with the government (a positive interest rate), but if you accept zero risk, what motivation does someone have to pay you a positive real return?

    Inflation will sometimes run ahead of the prevailing interest rate and sometimes a bit behind. But long term, a truly risk free bank savings account can't be expected to deliver a real, inflation-beating return.

    A 5k bank deposit backed by FSCS is as safe as a 5k NSANDI deposit backed by UK govt, essentially as close to risk-free as possible. The bank doesn't need to give you an inflation-busting return because you aren't gambling and don't need to be compensated for the potential downside loss. There is technically some risk and there are some market factors so in practice you can get RPI+x, but the x is not going to be very big.

    So therefore you shouldn't expect to get anything higher than inflation (plus a litte bit, the 'x'), long term. Sometimes you can get a positive return after inflation if the bank is more desperate for cash, or thinks it can sell you other ancillary services or investment products and considers the temporarily-decent retail interest rate to be a marketing spend, and you can jump about and find these sometimes. But while it's satisfying to pick the highest performing product each year, unless you're psychic you won't be able to call it right and sustainably beat inflation in the long term.

    So if you can't beat inflation from savings in the long term, the next best thing is to equal inflation, which these ILSCs give you.

    The counterpoint is that if you know you're truly putting it away for the long term, you can perhaps afford to ride out peaks and troughs and should maybe be looking at S&S investments instead rather than savings. Then you should be able to beat inflation because you are taking risks.
  • cepheus
    cepheus Posts: 20,053 Forumite
    bowlhead99 wrote: »
    Our currency devalues all the time, so you can get back more than you deposit with a bank or with the government (a positive interest rate), but if you accept zero risk, what motivation does someone have to pay you a positive real return?

    But NS Index Linked certificates is the ultimate 'no risk' investment because your true rate of return from any investment has to be measured relative to inflation. You take a bigger risk with standard non-inflation related savings accounts, whether these are fixed or variable! Every one of these is a small gamble with inflation and interest rates, but it adds up over time. This is the mistake people make.
  • Jonbvn
    Jonbvn Posts: 5,562 Forumite
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    cepheus wrote: »
    But NS Index Linked certificates is the ultimate 'no risk' investment because your true rate of return from any investment has to be measured relative to inflation. You take a bigger risk with standard non-inflation related savings accounts, whether these are fixed or variable! Every one of these is a small gamble with inflation and interest rates, but it adds up over time. This is the mistake people make.

    Agreed! This is why ILSC should form the backbone of any portfolio.
    In case you hadn't already worked it out - the entire global financial system is predicated on the assumption that you're an idiot:cool:
  • melpomene
    melpomene Posts: 185 Forumite
    Hi all

    I have read through but would still love some input.

    My 3 year NS&I certificate matures in early March. I have been on the RPI + 1% deal.

    They say that if I leave my money in I will receive 0.25% + RPI over a further 3 years.

    I'm a basic rate taxpayer.

    What should I do? I understood that inflation was through the roof given fuel and food price rises, but have read that it is actually falling, hence the confusion.

    Thanks guys.
  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    melpomene wrote: »
    Hi all

    I have read through but would still love some input.

    My 3 year NS&I certificate matures in early March. I have been on the RPI + 1% deal.

    They say that if I leave my money in I will receive 0.25% + RPI over a further 3 years.

    I'm a basic rate taxpayer.

    What should I do? I understood that inflation was through the roof given fuel and food price rises, but have read that it is actually falling, hence the confusion.

    Thanks guys.

    With sterling weakening fast at the moment I suggest that inflation won't be falling in the near future.
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
  • melpomene
    melpomene Posts: 185 Forumite
    Thanks StevieJ.

    Interest rates should also rise soon then?

    Another consideration though, as discussed above, is that there is no general availability of these certificates right now, so I need to reinvest the whole amount or none of it.
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