Should the UK be a part of the European Union?

Ken68 · 6 December 2012 at 5:45PM

Better to be IN the EU and playing a full role, able to influence change for the good ,than be a satellite of the USA.

XRAT · 6 December 2012 at 7:52PM

Gus360 wrote: »

Many countries have better trains, roads, trams and have a better lifestyle. Not everything is perfect of course but we should be playing a bigger part at the heart of the EU to our benefit.
I would say to doubters, drive around Europe and I think you will change your mind.

I think you'll find that most nay-sayers believe you, and that's why they want out!
They don't want to be working harder and longer so that the rest of Europe can have nice things. Just as they don't want to pay M.P.'s and M.E.P.'s large salaries AND subsidise their food, lodgings, lifestyle.., only to be fleeced by them.

If the U.K. left the E.U. would all the Europeans have to leave? And would that mean we would hit our emmissions targets because the population was smaller? Would other E.U. states then have larger populations and miss their targets? Would there be more houses available here, so we didn't need to build on the green-belt? Would there be less demand so house prices fell.., would that mean we would have more to spend on other things.., which would drive the economy?

Or would it mean that house prices fell meaning the banks would have less assets, therefore they'd collapse, the government would raise less tax.., and there would be less in the trough for their snouts?:(

wishbone42 · 7 December 2012 at 6:45PM

Re-negotiation cannot be an option for a referendum, as there's no definitive outcome. How does one quantify the result? Would success be measured by withdrawal from the CAP and CFP and return of control of our borders for instance? Or some other criteria? To whom would we assign the responsibility of re-negotiation? The then current Government? All three parties in Westminster have shown that they cannot be trusted on the subject of the EU, so there's not a prayer that much would change no matter who was in power.

A straightforward IN/OUT referendum is the only solution, as it means that the winners have a clear mandate one way or the other to move forward. Anything less will leave things in turmoil and will inevitably leave us in a worse situation than we have now.

Will we be better off leaving the EU? Absolutely. The re-direction of billions in membership fees to fund UK infrastructure projects, nuclear power stations, education and the NHS. Support for UK farmers, fisherman and industry. The reduction of red tape that's stifling our economic recovery. The ability to freely negotiate trade deals across the world. All things that we should've had these last 40 years if the political elite hadn't been working to a completely different agenda.

m1keb · 8 December 2012 at 4:20PM

The 75% of respondents who voted for renegotiation obviously do not know that this option is forbidden under EU treaties - Either a country is 100% in and subject to the whims of unelected bureaucrats, or it's 100% out, albeit that trading agreements can and will be negotiated.

Politicians of LibLabCon know this, but still spin that this option is available; it isn't, unless we invoke article 50 of the TEU (Treaty on European Union) and give notice of leaving. Only then would we be out from under the thumb of the EU bureaucracy and could negotiate a deal similar to Switzerland or Norway.

In the 1975 referendum we were asked "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?". 67% voted yes, but they were voting to stay in a trading union, not the Federal wannabe abortion we are now a member of, thanks to the treasonous actions of politicians of all parties since then.

At no time have the British people been asked whether we wanted to give up our sovereignty and be subservient to an unelected mob in Brussels.

We should have our say now.

Ken68 · 8 December 2012 at 5:50PM

At no time have the British people been asked to vote a sovereign into power.
And considering the shenagins they get up to no different to your 'unelected mob'.
At least if we played a full role in Europe we have the chance to normalise things. Not good to snipe from the edges.

foureyes1941 · 8 December 2012 at 6:24PM

To be honest, I think this question is misleading as most people want an in/out vote not on renegotiate and I believe most have read it wrong and have voted yes.

Arthurian · 8 December 2012 at 6:47PM

I agree with Goflyfalco - the question makes no sense.

If you vote to get out of the EU, you could vote NO to renegotiations. Yet someone could conclude that a NO to renegotiations means a vote to keep things as they are.

Or someone voting to get out of the EU could vote YES to renegotiations thinking that meant getting around a table in Brussels to arrange the exit of the UK from the EU.

m1keb · 9 December 2012 at 2:11AM

Ken68 wrote:

At no time have the British people been asked to vote a sovereign into power. And considering the shenagins (sic) they get up to no different to your 'unelected mob'.

You are deliberately misreading my post, which referred to the sovereignty of the British people, not Mrs Battenberg and family, who by their treachery are now mere citizens of the EU. Of what relevance is comparing the activities of a bunch of inbreeds to the thieving bureaucracy in Brussels?

At least if we played a full role in Europe we have the chance to normalise things. Not good to snipe from the edges.

You may wish to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic, but most British people do not agree with you (along with an increasing number of Irish, Greeks, Spaniards and even Germans!). If we get out we will be better off by 30 million pounds per day... and why then would we want to snipe at anybody?

Europe is my continent and holiday destination of choice, but not my country and it never will be, no matter what the politicians agree to in my name.

aberdinah · 10 December 2012 at 12:54PM

Anyone who has read Richard North and Christopher Booker's hefty tome 'The great deception' or who reads the EUReferendum blog will be aware that renegotiation is impossible under the terms of our membership.

Unless we leave we have extremely limited rights to determine our laws. Without economic freedom we will not be able to free ourselves from the depression we are currently in, and will have to contribute more and more money to the central government in Brussels to determine every last detail of what we are allowed to produce and buy.

The EU is not a free trade area; it is a customs union, by being in it we havbe to impose tariffs on goods from the rest of the world. Producers in developing countries can't compete with subsisded European businesses as it is, without having their goods made more expensive by tariffs. The upshot is we are poorer because we have to pay more for goods and Africans, Asians etc. are poorer because they have restricted economic opportunities. For what? Basically so European politicans can be part of something BIG and so have "status" on the wrold stage. But that doesn't benefit us.

In short either foreign trade is bad in, which case we should leave the EU and have 100% protectionism (or better yet ban trade altogether and wittle our own tools and grow our food in the back garden) or trade is good in which case we should be able to trade as freely as physically possible with everyone over the globe. Limiting free trade to an arbitrary set of countries based on European politics is simply nonsensical.

wishbone42 · 10 December 2012 at 5:59PM

I agree with Arthurian and Goflyfalco.

The 2nd question in this context is misleading.

I voted 'No' because re-negotiation isn't something I'd support.

However, by voting 'No' I didn't mean that I was happy with the status quo and wanted to remain a part of this miserable collective of eurocrats.

Should the UK be a part of the European Union?

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