Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

The_Hornet wrote: »

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Today I just received a letter from Countrywide which starts off:

"Prolonged economic uncertainty and the Euro region crisis have combined to have an effect of the price of LPG. After a period of relative stability the Propane market has turned adversely in the last month or so, and we are faced with an immediate price increase. Your individual increase will be 3.5p per litre."
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Is this the same market that is documented here? This shows remarkable stability up to January 2012 with no sign of the quoted price rise. Indeed you have to go back over a year before the wholesale market price was less than is is currently. <snip>

Many thanks for this post. PLEASE send Countrywide the link - and ask them to comment. Is the graph wrong? It would be really good to get their comments - and please post them for us all to read.

When I was with BP I got sent similar notices about price rises (and only one about a price decrease!) - with no external evidence to back them up. A subscription to Platts NWE Index - for the wholesale price - costs around £1k pa so I didn't have that to check what BP wrote.

A 3.5ppl increase on 43ppl is massive - especially when the wholesale price is about one third to one half the retail price. So you might also ask them if they are having to play catch up to restore their margins?

Since last year Countrywide has had a tie-up with Flogas (see here) - so are they moving their prices to be nearer those of Flogas (and we've had lots of posts about that!)?
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I got the same letter as the Hornet today, with the same 3.5 ppl price rise. That will move me from 44.85 ppl to 48.35 ppl.

The link the Hornet gave to Argus North Sea Index (ANSI) for LPG looks to be an independent assessment of northern European LPG prices and makes it look as though prices are about where they were a year ago, or lower.

http://www.argusmedia.com/LPGNGL/Argus-International-LPG

The LPG auto price also looks to be lower today than a year ago
http://www.whatgas.com/petrol-prices/lpg-prices.html

I've just telephoned Countrywide to ask them to justify their letter and price rise. The agent on their helpdesk said she would get someone to phone me back. I'll post back here when I get the call.

Ace_gas_guzzler wrote: »

My last bill from countrywide was priced at 52.1p per litre for a delivery of 1183 litres on 6th December 2010 (£647.16). I have just had a letter dated 24th Jan today informing me of an increase of 3.5 p per litre to take immediate effect. On 24th January I had a delivery of 1420 litres. Is this at the old price or the new one? We use about 6000 litres of lpg per year (old cottage, Aga, but modern boiler). Reading of all the different tarrifs as posted on this thread, someone really is taking the Michael. <snip>

Welcome to the forum!

With your high usage - 6000l p.a. - and big tank you should be getting a good rate from Countrywide. Are you near the end of your 2 yr contract - with several price rises?

You should be paying for this latest delivery at the old price - as you had not been informed of the price rise when it was delivered. Any problem contact the Office for Fair Trading - as they are very interested in how the Competition Commission ruling is working. Specifically: [FONT=&quot]Markets Policy and Remedies team by e-mailing [/FONT][FONT=&quot][URL="blocked::mailto:sharon.dias&#64;oft.gsi.gov.uk"][FONT=&quot]sharon.dias@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/FONT][/URL][/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]Come to think of it, they might be interested in these very different prices - 43 ppl, 44.85 ppl and 52.1 ppl - charged simultaneously by Countrywide, which has a restricted area of supply (so we are not comparing a user in the Scottish Highlands with another a couple of miles from an LPG depot).

Other suppliers? Put your postcode in http://www.uklpg.org and post the first part / your nearest town in this forum and someone may be able to help.

Good luck!

Ace_gas_guzzler wrote: »

Many thanks LittleVermin! Your answer was most helpful! I too am somewhat bemused by the fact that the price per litre varies so much. The big problem is that the suppliers don't publish their prices so comparison between companies is nigh on impossible. We moved in here just about four years ago, the original supplier being Calor. Their prices went up with every refill so we tried to shop around to find a cheaper supplier. Countrywide seeme to be getting some strong recommendations so we joined them in May 2010 with the initial fill priced at 31p per litre and thereafter 32p per litre. i have a letter from them which is headed Eligibility to switch supplier, but it is undated. In it theysay that they will notify us when our exclusivity period ends with them. In the smal print it states that it is a two year contract so I suppose that means we can look around for better prices after 7th May 2012. After that date, do we have to sign a fresh two year contract with a supplier or can we chop and change according to who is giving the best deal? Tried the link but it seems to be for LPG conversions rather than the actual propane suppliers. We're near Kenilworth CV8.

Apologies - I wrote down the wrote url - now corrected. Your potential suppliers for Kenilworth, CV8, are Calor, Flogas, Avanti (took over Shell) PLUS FIVE INDEPENDENTS: Energas, Lister, Callow and Carver, plus Countrywide which seems to be charging you rather a lot already. Lister and Carver post prices on-line (but also get a phone quote, which may be less) - and you'll find comments on the forum about them and Energas and Callow (all positive, if I remember correctly). You will probably find Extra Fuel will deliver - I'm surprised they are not listed but maybe they have left UKLPG (there are several suppliers who refuse to pay UKLPG subs! .. so there may be others). If you use "Search this Thread" you will turn up users of all the independents and then you can send them a private message for their comments (and maybe enjoy an introduction / new user fee if you sign up - often £50 each). You may also find there's a local bulk buying consortium (though these are rare) or a farmers' co-op (try Mole Valley Farmers) - though probably an independent will give you a better deal as farmers' co-ops tend to deal with Calor and Flogas.

Your tank will be owned by Countrywide but from 7th May you are free to switch to a new supplier (assuming they will accept you) (see here) - and Countrywide has to offer to sell the tank to them at a price arrived at by using a formula set by the Competition Commission (see here). You will need to give Countrywide x days notice (see your contract) - and then the switch must be completed in 28 days (or 42 days if the new supplier wants to install their own tank). Only the tank owner can fill the tank (except some contracts include extreme circumstances in which the user can get another supplier to fill). You could buy the tank off Countrywide (but only consider this if it is relatively new and only if it is totally compliant - see below) and then you can get suppliers to quote for each fill. With so many potential suppliers you could do very well, but you'd need to hire an engineer to test the tank when it's 10 years old (BTW I'm assuming the tank is above ground). Another option is to stay with Countrywide, but out of contract so you can switch later (assuming Countrywide agree to supply you out of contract).

So, in early March I'd suggest you ring round the potential suppliers for quotes, mentioning your high usage, your large tank (both in your favour for a good deal!), AND asking them to send a draft contract for you to study (and ask for comments in this forum). You also need to ask each supplier to give an initial price guarantee, a maximum rate of rise and also the annual rental. They MUST give a quote over the phone, but subject to inspection. Your tank MAY NOT meet the current UKLPG code so I'd check with Calor's plan (here) and tweak as necessary, if you can, before a rep comes! If your tank installation is very 'illegal' you may have to stick with Countrywide BUT you have a good case for getting them to sort it - they have, after all, been filling it many times - AND each time the tanker driver must assess that it is compliant BEFORE filling. Quite a few posts on the forum about 'illegal' tanks.
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Ace_gas_guzzler wrote: »

<snip> Much food for thought - the next few weeks look like being rather interesting!

Please post the prices, etc you get offered. This gives others ammunition for when they come to haggle. Sadly people often ask questions on the forum, get answers - but then never post what happened next. And we need a constant supply of quotes and prices to make this forum really useful.

If The Hornet hadn't posted about Countrywide's possibly unjustified price rise - and Den2Mark and you replied - we wouldn't know that Countrywide was no better than the majors* in still having a wide spread of prices. Yes, a spread is justified - based on volume used, distance from depot, number of fills per year - but not a massive spread. Several of us tried to get the OFT to address this in their Off-grid energy investigation (you'll find lots of comments about their report if you look back in this forum ... but you'll search long for any positive comments!).

Back last year Countrywide's price spread was also highlighted. But others have posted that they like the business.

*massive differences reported e.g. from Flogas in 2010 - simultaneously 30ppl (see here) and 68ppl (see here), but could have dug out very different prices being charged at the same time by BP and Calor too.

{Now back to completing my on-line tax return. Groan!}