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Crap landlord; can i refuse to pay final month's rent?

2

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  • poppysarah
    poppysarah Posts: 11,522 Forumite
    Nikel wrote: »
    Your next landlord may ask for references.


    "I have a dispute with my previous landlord over his failiure to put my deposit in a scheme"
  • Have your parents signed anything like a deed accepting their roles as guarantors for you rent? I think you need to read that unsigned rental agreement to understand whether your are all on a "joint and several" tenancy. Your folks not paying your last month's rent could result in all of your deposits being retained as a result.
    Even though the contract was unsigned there will be a tenancy in place - I am with you on this. However, the tenancy contract by default will be very basic - I think that any decent lawyer would convince a court that the T&C's would be a minimum for a tenancy to be workable. The terms would amount to little more than rent, roof over head and statutory provisions and could be fairly inferred from the custom and practice of the tenancy to this point. Very little of the unsigned agreement would leap off the page and attach itself to the OP

    I cannot see that Joint & Several liability could leap off a page and attach itself to a tenant who has not signed. Such a clause would be outwith the basic terms to make the custom and practice tenancy work to this point. Effectively, any joint and several party to a contract is making itself a corporation for the sole purpose of conducting their side of a tenancy [I am aware this may not be the orthodox explanation]. I don't think that the custom and practice argument can be made to stretch to binding someone to a joint and several agreement. This could be undermined by paying rent through a lead tenant.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • harpyemma wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing has been signed by me or my parents. The only thing that's in place is the standing order that comes from my parents. Regarding the tenancy agreement, it definitely specifies that tenants are jointly and severally liable for rent. That being said, the document strikes me as quite bizarre. Unlike previous tenancy agreements i've signed, which have run to 5-6 pages at least (in 10 or 12-point font), this agreement covers just 3.5 sides in 14-point.

    Without my having sight of the agreement I can't see that the length of it has any baring on how binding any of the clauses are, save for the jointly and severally one.




    This bodes well for us legally, i would assume? But it doesn't sound like an easy battle.

    Yes, you assume correctly. But that's also assuming that this landlord understands his responsibilities and he patently does not or he would have protected your deposits in the first place.



    The tenancy agreement says "the tenant will... allow the landlord access at reasonable hours of the daytime... the landlord may need immediate access... to allow future, prospective tenants to enter and view the property". I'm guessing, though, that this doesn't mean the landlord can spring visits from on us without due (24hrs) notice--whatever the contract says?

    The landlord "may" need immediate access but that does not mean that he's entitled to demand it and that you in turn are compelled to agree. Many landlords either do not understand the concept of quiet enjoyment or willfully disregard it. That being the case, you will possibly have a long and nasty battle on your hands and one which you may not want to start fighting until the end of your tenancy is in sight.

    I'm already getting the firefighters round to confirm the property doesn't comply with the law--hoping they'll lump the !!!!!!! with a hefty fine. After that, I'll see about getting environmental health on the case, too.

    This guy is taking advantage of students he thinks are mugs. And he's sexist with it. I want to make things as difficult for him as possible, if i can.

    Making things "difficult" for your landlord when you still have so long until you surrender your tenancy could make things trebly difficult for all of you in return. I'd be having a really good think about how easy or not finding alternative accommodation might be in the middle of the academic year.

    I'd be minded to dob him in the deepest mire when I'm safely out of the way. This LL dos not sound like they are interested in playing by the rules, even if they knew what they were. Please tread very carefully.
  • Making things "difficult" for your landlord when you still have so long until you surrender your tenancy could make things trebly difficult for all of you in return. I'd be having a really good think about how easy or not finding alternative accommodation might be in the middle of the academic year.

    I'd be minded to dob him in the deepest mire when I'm safely out of the way. This LL dos not sound like they are interested in playing by the rules, even if they knew what they were. Please tread very carefully.

    Tenancy runs till Jun 30, but i have absolutely no need to live there after May 10--and, in theory, could get by staying in a hostel for the two weeks (or, really, 4 days) i need to be around after Easter before that date. If i had to move out at Easter (break begins first week of April), it would be doable.
    Of course, perhaps not so doable for my undergraduate housemates who probably need to stick around till the tenancy ends...
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    Agree with most of the above. Landlords like this need to learn their responsibilities:
    See :

    Environmental Health - at your local council eg here. They will inspect and can enforce an improvement notice if the conditions are unsafe/unhygenic. They (or the council private tenancy officer or similar, can help with non-registered deposit etc
    HMRC - I bet he's not paying income tax on the rent
    Land Registry - for £4 find out who he has a mortgage with. He probobly has no permission to rent. They won't discuss his mortgage with you but writing to them to inform them you are the tenant, and asking if his insurance is valid for a rented property will stir things up.
  • blt
    blt Posts: 241 Forumite
    If you weren't happy, you should have done something before, eg gone to see a solicitor or CAB. Simply not paying in not appropriate at all.
  • blt wrote: »
    If you weren't happy, you should have done something before, eg gone to see a solicitor or CAB. Simply not paying in not appropriate at all.

    Before what? Before i found out the deposits weren't in a DPS? That was a fortnight ago. Before the water pipe broke and we had to wait 24hrs on a weekday to get it seen to? Before the majority of the damage to the house occurred as a result? Last week. Before i signed the contract? I never did.

    The CAB, i'm pretty sure, isn't time-sensitive. Taking legal action, however, is time-consuming--and before the majority of the LL's !!!!!!!! came to light, i was reluctant to kick up a fuss.
  • wrightk
    wrightk Posts: 975 Forumite
    do not withold rent. Your the more mature person here by the sounds of it. witholding rent does nothing effective.

    As g_m said check land registry and hmrc. Enviromental health- get on to them asap tell them the situation is an emergency. They will assess your property, you take them around the house explain the things that are concerning you, they will assess the risk of the property. major concerns for EH are excess cold,inadequate heating,and risks of fire, if the risks in the home are likely to affect your health (which by the sounds of it they are) the council will take action against the landlord. The EH have 3 levels of disrepair which is a point system for all the affected areas that need action, low, medium and high. High would mean the council would order you to leave immediately as the house is not safe to be lived in. By the sounds yours is a medium

    regardless of whether you move out or not, get onto the enviromental health department at your local council. once they assess the risk of the property they will issue a repair notice that is binding on the landlord. If you move out the landlord will no longer be able to rent the property out to another tenant until the repairs listed have been completed.

    Take the others advice on deposit protection and legal action.

    good luck
    Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, and for once I'm inclined to believe Withnail is right. We are indeed drifting into the arena of the unwell.
  • The LL's wife (LL himself has a broken ankle and is off his feet) brought round two people to view the property this afternoon. This time, we were given notice, thankfully, although they did arrive half an hour early. About 5 mins before they arrived, i discovered a puddle of water on the kitchen floor and a new hole in the wall/ceiling of the kitchen. So, i pointed it out to the LL accordingly. Whilst i was doing so, i also re-pointed out the drainage problem in the yard and mentioned that i was still seeing cockroaches around the house. All this happened in front of the prospective tenants. My housemate (female)also asked why they arrived earlier than they said they would, and pointed out to the prospies that her room was difficult to heat.
    This afternoon both she and i have received several calls from the LL. I didn't answer; she did. The LL is apparently extremely angry with us for pointing out the truth and as good as threatened my housemate, saying something like "if you are good to me i'll be good to you" (a promise he has obviously already broken).

    Putting aside the nonpayment idea for a moment, what would be the ideal legal course of action beyond getting the fire service and environmental health to assess the property? I want to make sure that 1) i get every single penny of deposit back from him; and 2) he faces as much legal trouble as is possible.
  • DVardysShadow
    DVardysShadow Posts: 18,949 Forumite
    harpyemma wrote: »

    Putting aside the nonpayment idea for a moment, what would be the ideal legal course of action beyond getting the fire service and environmental health to assess the property? I want to make sure that 1) i get every single penny of deposit back from him; and 2) he faces as much legal trouble as is possible.

    OK, you are doing a Master's degree. So I will assume that you have you head screwed on and you are fully compos mentis and you take responsibility for your own choices and if it all goes wrong you will accept that you took a balanced decision on a risk rathar than blaming anyone else.

    Normally advice here comes in a single flavour of what you need to do. That is you should pay it all up and take the LL to court for the deposit if he does not pay up. But you could look at the other flavour. This is to move out as soon as the rent you have paid runs out, not pay any more and wave goodbye to the deposit. The LL sounds clueless enough not to be able to pursue you effectively and if he has a go, the fact that you have not signed the contract causes him more problems than it does you. You could also consider just staying without paying more rent and accept the loss of your deposit. But if you go down this path, you need to keep your papers and your computer with you - otherwise you may find a soaking wet dissertation draft on the doorstep and the laptop and printer or whatever gone. You also need to think about how this may play out for your co tenants. Legally, your position is a bit on the weak side, but to some extent you have some defences available to you which may be enough for the LL's solicitor to advise him to put it down to experience. But if you do this and it goes wrong, remember it was your decision, not my advice.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
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