Tmobile price increase
Comments
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Below are the clauses in the Orange contract that allow you to terminate penalty free if Orange change the T&Cs as they have just done! They will be relying on "material determent" as a reason as to why they will not allow a penalty free cancellation, however Orange do not have the legal right to determine if the change is of Material detriment to you, you simply have to claim that the change is of material detriment as it changes your position in relation to the price rise clause, AND in any case USD 2002/22 is clear that ANY MODOFICATION to the terms gives rise to your right o a penalty free cancellation. You may also be able to get £50 compensation for the fact that Orange have not complied GC 9.6 or USD 2002/22 as they have not clearly explained your termination rights when writing to you!
15.1- (b)
We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges – or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment – you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).
4.3
You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms, resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes).
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RandomCurve wrote: »Below are the clauses in the Orange contract that allow you to terminate penalty free if Orange change the T&Cs as they have just done! They will be relying on "material determent" as a reason as to why they will not allow a penalty free cancellation, however Orange do not have the legal right to determine if the change is of Material detriment to you, you simply have to claim that the change is of material detriment as it changes your position in relation to the price rise clause, AND in any case USD 2002/22 is clear that ANY MODOFICATION to the terms gives rise to your right o a penalty free cancellation. You may also be able to get £50 compensation for the fact that Orange have not complied GC 9.6 or USD 2002/22 as they have not clearly explained your termination rights when writing to you!
15.1- (b)
We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges – or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment – you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).
4.3
You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms, resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes).
Did the price rise Orange added last year already give you the right to cancel if you took out a contract pre-October 2012?0 -
Hi
I received the text few days ago also. So if we want to cancel it has to be done in writing?RandomCurve wrote: »Below are the clauses in the Orange contract that allow you to terminate penalty free if Orange change the T&Cs as they have just done! They will be relying on "material determent" as a reason as to why they will not allow a penalty free cancellation, however Orange do not have the legal right to determine if the change is of Material detriment to you, you simply have to claim that the change is of material detriment as it changes your position in relation to the price rise clause, AND in any case USD 2002/22 is clear that ANY MODOFICATION to the terms gives rise to your right o a penalty free cancellation. You may also be able to get £50 compensation for the fact that Orange have not complied GC 9.6 or USD 2002/22 as they have not clearly explained your termination rights when writing to you!
15.1- (b)
We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges – or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment – you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).
4.3
You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms, resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes).0 -
nsabournemouth wrote: »Did the price rise Orange added last year already give you the right to cancel if you took out a contract pre-October 2012?
For Orange that is debatable.
You could definitely (and still can, including back dating to April 2012) get out of paying the increased price - i.e they have to only charge the originally agreed price - See posts #54 and #55 on forum:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63968590#post63968590
To cancel out right you would have to successfully have argued that the price rise was of Material Detriment to you (If I recall you posted earlier that you cancelled with Orange and paid the termination Charge?).
I think that argument is winnable because:
Under the UTCCRs:- Orange can not have the sole right to determine what Material Detriment is
- By definition the term is ambiguous (the fact that Orange and Ofcom have chosen to assume it means RPI does not mean that is what it means)- so the customer definition should apply (which for you is that it IS a material detriment to you)
- GC 9.6 (An Ofcom rule which telephone companies rely on to make price increases) is based on USD 2002/22 which sates that ANY MODIFICATION to the contract gives rise to the customer exiting penalty free (See post #55 on the link above)
- In November Ofcom reconsidered what was meant by Material Detriment and concluded it was any modification!
- Which of course is what it should always have meant!
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Hi
I received the text few days ago also. So if we want to cancel it has to be done in writing?
Yes via email is fine. If you call 150 they have no authority to give a penalty free cancellation, nor to they have the ability to transfer to you someone who does!
The email address is the executive office, but I always copy in their CEO as well the addresses are:
[EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL];
[EMAIL="Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]
At this stage you just need to say that you want an immediate penalty Free cancellation of your contract and a PAC code due to the change in T&Cs as this triggers your right under clause 15.1 (b) and 4.3.1.*
They will email back saying NO, and at that stage I will put a template email on the forum for you to follow.
*The clause references quoted above are for ORANGE CONTRACTS For T-MOBILE the clauses are - 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.20 -
On second thoughts below is an initial email that can be sent (delete the red or the blue text depending on which brand you are with.
Dear Mr Swantee
Phone Number 07XXX-XXXXXX
Please accept this email as my notice to terminate my contract with Orange T-Mobile as per clauses 15.1(b) and 4.3.1 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.2 following EEs recent communication to me regarding a change to my Terms and Conditions.
I find the change unacceptable and consider it to be of Material Detriment. Additionally under Universal Service Directive 2002/22/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council 7th March 2002, Chapter IV – End User Agreements, Article 20 – Contracts, Paragraph 4 I have a right to withdraw from my contract (without penalty) upon notice of proposed modifications in the contractual conditions.
Please send my PAC code (penalty free) by return and refund any prepaid sums made on my account.
Regards
I think this case is winnable for the following reasons:- The USD (as described above);
- How can Material Detriment be defined in relation to a changed clause? You can't relate it to a figure such as RPI as you can with a price rise, as the change is a legal effect not a monetary one;
- Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (UTCCs) state that a company can not give itself sole power to determine what a term means (e.g. Material Detriment)
- UTCCRs also states that when a term is ambiguous (e.g. point 2 above) It is the interpretation most beneficial to the CONSUMER that shall be used.
(m)
giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract;
AND
Plain, intelligible language -The UTCCRs require standard terms to be expressed in plain, intelligible language. (Regulation 7 of the UTCCRs states 'a seller or supplier shall ensure that any written term of a contract is expressed in plain, intelligible language'.) This means that consumers (not just lawyers) can understand not just the words used, but their effect. Unclear or ambiguous terms, and those with uncertain application, especially those which could be detrimental to the consumer, may be challenged.
Where the meaning of a term is ambiguous, the UTCCRs state that the interpretation that is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail.
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RandomCurve wrote: »For Orange that is debatable.
You could definitely (and still can, including back dating to April 2012) get out of paying the increased price - i.e they have to only charge the originally agreed price - See posts #54 and #55 on forum:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63968590#post63968590
To cancel out right you would have to successfully have argued that the price rise was of Material Detriment to you (If I recall you posted earlier that you cancelled with Orange and paid the termination Charge?).
I think that argument is winnable because:
Under the UTCCRs:- Orange can not have the sole right to determine what Material Detriment is
- By definition the term is ambiguous (the fact that Orange and Ofcom have chosen to assume it means RPI does not mean that is what it means)- so the customer definition should apply (which for you is that it IS a material detriment to you)
- GC 9.6 (An Ofcom rule which telephone companies rely on to make price increases) is based on USD 2002/22 which sates that ANY MODIFICATION to the contract gives rise to the customer exiting penalty free (See post #55 on the link above)
- In November Ofcom reconsidered what was meant by Material Detriment and concluded it was any modification!
- Which of course is what it should always have meant!
The terms and conditions if I remember correctly back in 2012 said you could cancel if the price rise was of detriment, they changed them to say material detriment hence the big uproar on the Orange thread.
My case is with CISAS at the moment, I've based my case on the change from that and of course USD 2002/22. Orange have until the 12th to come back with their response.0 -
nsabournemouth wrote: »The terms and conditions if I remember correctly back in 2012 said you could cancel if the price rise was of detriment, they changed them to say material detriment hence the big uproar on the Orange thread.
My case is with CISAS at the moment, I've based my case on the change from that and of course USD 2002/22. Orange have until the 12th to come back with their response.
That might explain why clause 15 1 (b) refers to Detriment, whilst 4.3.1 refers to Material Detriment.
Good luck with the claim and keep us posted.0 -
Does anyone have any idea what the new contract prices will be ?
It simply says that my contract will be increasing by more than RPI...
My 2 year contract expires in 4 months - so I will not be renewing !!
The text received points me to http://www.ee.co.uk/termsrefreshv58 which doesn't give me the details that I am looking for....
I am also blocked from selecting the £5 discount - does anyone know why ?
I think that EE believes that they are entitled to increase charges in light of their offering 4G to all - which cannot be farther from the truth (we live 50 miles from the nearest 4G signal !!)0 -
Has anyone notified BBC watchdog yet - that Tmobile/EE are up to their old tricks again ?0
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