Top-up fees for care home?

Rosie75 · 1 July 2008 at 6:24PM

I am posting this on behalf on my partner. His mother has been in a care home for the last 18 months as she has dementia - my partner and his brother had to go to the court of protection to get access to her financial affairs to pay the care home, and this has only just been resolved. Last month, their father was also placed in a (different) care home as his dementia means that he is unable to live alone. His care home has now sent my partner and his brother agreements to sign for a "third party top-up" of £200 per month. Obviously this is a different scenario to that they faced with their mother and they are reluctant to sign this. None of us has ever heard of children being expected to contribute towards the cost of their parents' care.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Could the home refuse to accommodate their father if they do not pay? He is able to pay for his care himself, probably for a number of years, but his dementia means that his sons will have to go through the frustrating and lengthy process of applying to the court of protection and experience tells us that the home is likely to get impatient and start threatening legal action for unpaid fees (as was the case with my partner's mother).

Savvy_Sue · 1 July 2008 at 8:40PM

Assuming you are in England (because I know the rules are different elsewhere) then I recommend a read of this thread. Because you may find that either or both of your parents should be having their care paid for in full.

I really recommend getting advice from Age Concern or Help the Aged.

However, if it's clear that the father isn't going to be able to manage his own affairs anyway, then starting the process of going to the CoP would be a good plan ...

Rosie75 · 1 July 2008 at 9:36PM

Thanks for the link. We are in England, and my partner and his brother are about to start the whole process of going to the court of protection again.

What confuses me is that the information I have been reading on the web this afternoon seems to suggest that my partner's father is not allowed to "top up" the difference between what social services would pay (and this is hypothetical because his income and assets are significantly above the threshold) and what the home charges by using his own money. This difference apparently has to be paid by a third party - I assume so that his assets don't dwindle away too quickly resulting in Social Services having to pick up the tab sooner than they would like. We haven't even been told how much the home charges a week - he was simply placed there in an emergency situation, and there was no choice of accommodation offered. Experience tells me that this is all going to be a nightmare - it feels like hospitals, social workers, care homes and banks are hell-bent on making all already stressful situation a hundred times worse...

Savvy_Sue · 2 July 2008 at 1:16PM

Another reason to get good advice quick! If you know what the regs actually say ....

EdInvestor · 2 July 2008 at 2:02PM

Some useful info on financing care

https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/pdfs/is6.pdf

Mojisola · 2 July 2008 at 3:37PM

Rosie75 wrote: »

His care home has now sent my partner and his brother agreements to sign for a "third party top-up" of £200 per month.

He is able to pay for his care himself, probably for a number of years

I've never heard of this before. I understood that the person needing the care was responsible for any payment if they had enough assets and, if not, the Social Services budget paid the fees.

Do post if you get any clarification of this demand. It's always worth knowing about these things in case we get landed with them too.

Primrose · 3 July 2008 at 3:35PM

I strongly advise that you do not sign anything commiting you to top up your father's care home fees without getting proper legal advice. Relatives are often at the mercy of local authorities who deliberately seem to take advantage of the fact that relatives are at their wits end by the time a parent needs to be taken into care with dementia. My father sadly suffered badly from this problem and had to be sectioned. He ended up in residential care and not one single social worker or health care professional I was involved with at the time told me, as his Power of Attorney representative, that he was entitled to free care. I had to sell his home to pay for his care and only after his death did I discover that his care should have been free. I sued the Primary Care Trust involved and after a long fight they were forced to refund his fees.

Rosie75 · 3 July 2008 at 8:47PM

What a sad story, Primrose. It does feel as though the people who are supposedly there to support the elderly and their families are often making a bad situation even worse. The social workers my partner and his brother have been dealing with only seem to care about money.
We haven't got any further with finding out about these top-up fees as my partner has been in bed with a migraine for the last two days (probably because of all the stress). However, I've told him not to sign anything and - until we know more - to ignore any correspondence from the owners of the care home.
If you don't mind me asking, Primrose, was your father's care paid for by the PCT because he had a particularly bad case of dementia?

debtfreeoneday · 3 July 2008 at 9:51PM

Hi, I know in some cases, homes can charge for a third party top up if they are a particular quality of home or if they are in demand. Increases paid to care homes by local authorities are below inflation and some homes are unable to meet costs unless top ups are charged.

I know that doesn't make your situation any easier, but some local authorities have also been know n to pay these top ups as well.

Hope this helps..

Mojisola · 3 July 2008 at 10:37PM

debtfreeoneday wrote: »

Hi, I know in some cases, homes can charge for a third party top up if they are a particular quality of home or if they are in demand. Increases paid to care homes by local authorities are below inflation and some homes are unable to meet costs unless top ups are charged.

I can understand that care home fees may be more than the local authority wants to pay, but why does the extra have to be paid by a third party when the resident has money?

Rosie75 · 3 July 2008 at 11:42PM

Mojisola wrote: »

I can understand that care home fees may be more than the local authority wants to pay, but why does the extra have to be paid by a third party when the resident has money?

I also find this strange. The cynic in me suggests that social services are anticipating a situation where the resident's assets may get used up quickly if they opt for an expensive care home. SS would then need to step in to pay. It would therefore be in their interests to keep the resident's expenditure down by insisting on a third party top-up so that their assets last as long as possible. Or is this too Machiavellian, even for local authorities?

Top-up fees for care home?

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