Twin Walled Flue & Multi Flue stove: Worth the hassel??

wintergirl
wintergirl Posts: 55 Forumite
Hi all. New to this forum, so please be gentle!
(Apologies for the lenght of this rant - please bear with me though!)
Many years ago in our old property we had a woodburner installed. Guys did it in a day: swept chimney, dropped a flue down, repotted the chimney and sealed it at both ends to the pot and stove. All worked lovely for the 9 years we were there.

We then moved to a modern house with no chimney - Oh how I missed the woodburner. Lasted 4 years with darn E7 heating. Had enough by last winter, so decided to spend some of our hard earned cash getting one installed via a Hetas installer. (Hubby not very good with DIY, so needed to find a trusted installer to do it all.) First hurdle we hit was getting conflicting advice from the 3 (Hetas) installers we asked to quote. - Yes it can go where we want it; no it can't. Yes it can be straight; no it needs bends. Your wall is a stud wall and needs heat sheilding; No its plasterboard on brick and doesn't need it, etc, etc.
After much confusion we went with a 4th installer. (A builder, but Hetas reg.) who made the most sense, and spent the longest at our property doing a thorough survey. Had a freestanding 5kw stove put in with an internal twin lined flue system.
That was in Feb. We were pleased with the install, and all worked well, although from the very start the fire cement would fall out of the joints on the 1.4mtrs of enamel flue. Had the installers back twice; they just put more cement in, which fell out again as soon as we fired it up. By the summer we realised that they did not know how to solve the problem, so contacted another specialised stove fitter. (Hetas again)
He came out and said he could fix the cement problem. Then asked to look at the install. Started to make comments about what had been done, indicating that it wasn't up to standard.
I (stupidly) didn't ask him outright if he was saying it would fail Hetas / Build Regs, but thats certainly what he implied. He would get back with a quote to 'put things right'. No quote materialised, and the company are ignoring my calls / emails.

So; we are left with an install that we are now questioning the safety of, a messy looking single flue section with cement falling out, and to cap things off, this morning after the heavy rain of last night, there's water droplets coming down the outside of the twin flue section, and dripping onto the top of the stove.

A call to the original installers has been left to come and fix the leak. No response by them yet. Oh, and I was so angry with this guy implying the install wasn't up to scratch and then not having the courage to stand by his words that I emailed Hetas last week with the full details of what he implied was wrong, to ask their advice. They haven't bother to reply to me either!!

Have we just had a run of bad luck with these guys? All we wanted was an install that was safe, and up to standard; that didn't leak when it rains, and that doesn't shed its fire cement when fired up. Was that too much to ask.....?
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Comments

  • muckybutt
    muckybutt Posts: 3,761
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    Firstly sorry to hear about your problems, I have to admit HETAS isnt all what its cracked up to be as I too have had dealings with dodgy installs.

    Re the flue cement, I can recommend a fire cement called INGLENOOK Fire cement, I use it a lot when doing stove and fire repairs when im chimney sweeping http://www.leekes.co.uk/inglenook-fire-cement-1kg/invt/516974/
    Theres also high temp flue sealant http://www.fluesupplies.com/product_info.php?products_id=725 cant say I have tried it myself but can be used on enamel flue pipe so should be fit for purpose.

    Hope you get the stove sorted, might be wort giving the installer another call, if you still get no reply then send a letter before action...that normally gets their attention !
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • suisidevw
    suisidevw Posts: 2,256 Forumite
    As you got the builder in presumerably you got it signed off by building regs?
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,849
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    Forumite
    You have my sympathies, Wintergirl. Every year on this forum we get similar stories about HETAS installers and (pretty much) every year we end-up in a flame war when someone (usually me) dares to say what should be blindingly obvious by now - that the government has completely messed-up by allowing a single, self-regulating, profit making company to have a virtual monopoly of stove installation.

    My advice, FWIW, would be to call in an independent builder (or a sweep - in my experience they tend to be clueful) and if you have any doubts as to the safety of the finished job, get your local council's building inspector in for a properly unbiased, professional opinion.
  • Thanks for your replies :

    muckybutt : We will look out for the fire cement you recommend. Thanks.

    susidevw : The builder was a Hetas Approved installer, so I have the Completion Certificate (They are also registered as Fed Master Builders, for what thats worth?!)

    A.Badger : Couldn't agree more.

    What is so concerning is that these shoddy installs can put peoples lives at risk. I presumed that going down the Hetas route would mean a guarantee that the work was to standard. I did not expect to be running around afterwards getting second, or third opinons on it!
    Hubby is of the view that as the installer was Hetas, and as we used the stove from Feb-Apr, burning 1/2 a load of logs or so with no adverse effects, (ie the house didn't burn down!) That it must all be ok. After the second engineers comments though, I will not be able to rest until I am sure it is up to standard.
  • My stove was installed year before last and I don't use it. Got lots of quotes and ended up going with the most expensive because I wanted it done correctly, he had a long wait list and a stove shop said he was good. He was registered with everyone.

    Something is not sealed properly and I have soot falling down the back of the register plate onto the hearth. Last time it was lit through a small gap around the flue pipe I could see bright red glowing, probably the small bits of soot glowing. All I could think was I'm going to catch fire here.

    When they fitted it they had to work back to front as the clearance from the end of the chimney flue to the small black pipe and then to the stove was so tight, they had to assemble it all together and push the stove in, it took hours to get it in. I'm thinking that clamp on the end of the chimney flue is not on properly on perhaps sealing it off?

    It's turned out to be a very expensive ornament in the lounge.
  • w50nky
    w50nky Posts: 418 Forumite
    edited 25 September 2012 at 11:21AM
    wintergirl wrote: »
    Thanks for your replies :

    muckybutt : We will look out for the fire cement you recommend. Thanks.

    susidevw : The builder was a Hetas Approved installer, so I have the Completion Certificate (They are also registered as Fed Master Builders, for what thats worth?!)

    A.Badger : Couldn't agree more.

    What is so concerning is that these shoddy installs can put peoples lives at risk. I presumed that going down the Hetas route would mean a guarantee that the work was to standard. I did not expect to be running around afterwards getting second, or third opinons on it!
    Hubby is of the view that as the installer was Hetas, and as we used the stove from Feb-Apr, burning 1/2 a load of logs or so with no adverse effects, (ie the house didn't burn down!) That it must all be ok. After the second engineers comments though, I will not be able to rest until I am sure it is up to standard.

    The joins on the stove to stove pipe and the joints between each section of enamelled stove pipe should be secured with stainless steel self tapping screws as well as sealed with sealant the minimise movement of the joints which will make some fire cement crack and fall out.

    Sealant mentioned available here a bit cheaper too.

    http://www.ncc-flue.co.uk/sealants-and-tools/fire-sealants/black-high-temperature-silicone-310ml-tube.html

    Good luck.
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you! :dance:
  • Swipe
    Swipe Posts: 5,064
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    My stove was installed year before last and I don't use it. Got lots of quotes and ended up going with the most expensive because I wanted it done correctly, he had a long wait list and a stove shop said he was good. He was registered with everyone.

    Something is not sealed properly and I have soot falling down the back of the register plate onto the hearth. Last time it was lit through a small gap around the flue pipe I could see bright red glowing, probably the small bits of soot glowing. All I could think was I'm going to catch fire here.

    When they fitted it they had to work back to front as the clearance from the end of the chimney flue to the small black pipe and then to the stove was so tight, they had to assemble it all together and push the stove in, it took hours to get it in. I'm thinking that clamp on the end of the chimney flue is not on properly on perhaps sealing it off?

    It's turned out to be a very expensive ornament in the lounge.

    Get them back in and get them to fix it if it's not fit for purpose.
  • Solid Fuel, in all it's forms, lies in the DIY area, and long may it remain so...

    If we are going to be banned from lighting a fire to keep ourselves warm, then we should also be banned from growing our own vegetables in order to feed ourselves!
  • Ectophile
    Ectophile Posts: 7,282
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    edited 25 September 2012 at 8:58PM
    Solid Fuel, in all it's forms, lies in the DIY area, and long may it remain so...

    If we are going to be banned from lighting a fire to keep ourselves warm, then we should also be banned from growing our own vegetables in order to feed ourselves!

    You're unlikely to die of carbon monoxide poisoning from growing your own vegetables.

    I wonder how many DIYers can actually follow Building Regs part J, and get it right?
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
  • Ectophile wrote: »
    You're unlikely to die of carbon monoxide poisoning from growing your own vegetables

    Wood-burning is equally harmless - it will not explode at a single spark, and it will not send fatal shock waves through your body if you touch the wrong couple of bits

    Any risk of carbon monoxide will be amply preceded by thick, visible, and unbreathable smoke

    Most people simply cannot be bothered with the hassle of coal or wood-burning, although many people expect HETAS engineers etc to be able to abolish the complications whilst preserving the ideal

    Wood-burning is no more complicated than cooking on a barbecue - it is similarly labour-intensive, and somtimes a complete failure! It does not need to legislated out of existence
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