New to investments

2

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  • KiKi
    KiKi Posts: 5,377 Forumite
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    asc99c wrote: »
    I realise my attitude toward risk is only my own, but I do wonder why, if someone has £50k in savings, do they feel an additional £50k needs to be in a no-risk account.

    Quite simply because she's not happy to risk any of her money; that's her personal attitude. She has no job at the moment, so she is living off the inheritance she has been given. She has absolutely zero experience of saving or investing, so although £50K in savings and investing the rest might be comfortable for you, it's not for her. :)

    Thanks everyone for your views.

    KiKi
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,316 Forumite
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    Quite simply because she's not happy to risk any of her money; that's her personal attitude. She has no job at the moment, so she is living off the inheritance she has been given.

    From what you say she is risking the money then. Living off the inheritance puts her at shortfall risk and inflation risk. For income there is no "no risk" option. If she draws all the interest/income on £100k then in 10 years time that £100k will be worth around £65k in real terms. Thats a real terms loss of £35k. In 20 years it will be worth around £42k in real terms.

    Taking some investment risk with some of the money doesnt mean she has to go gung ho right up the risk scale. It may be just dipping the toes in the water with some of the money and staying down the lower risk end. Risk is not on/off. its a sliding scale.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • KiKi
    KiKi Posts: 5,377 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    dunstonh wrote: »
    From what you say she is risking the money then. Living off the inheritance puts her at shortfall risk and inflation risk. For income there is no "no risk" option. If she draws all the interest/income on £100k then in 10 years time that £100k will be worth around £65k in real terms. Thats a real terms loss of £35k. In 20 years it will be worth around £42k in real terms.

    Taking some investment risk with some of the money doesnt mean she has to go gung ho right up the risk scale. It may be just dipping the toes in the water with some of the money and staying down the lower risk end. Risk is not on/off. its a sliding scale.

    Thanks, and yes, I understand it's a scale. And I understand the shortfall and inflation risk. However, as she's so new to this, and completely unsavvy with finance, the argument that the money is worth 'less' in the future goes over her head; she can still 'see' it in savings - and that gives her a sense of security, no matter what the inflation and shortfall arguments are!

    I will pass on all this advice, of course, but as she's just too new to this, I think I'll start by introducing her to S&S ISAs, as she understands the ISA concept - she does actually have a cash ISA (which she's had for years paying something stupid like 0.5%). I've convinced her to transfer it!

    I know that may all seem silly to those who are investment and finance savvy, but this is someone who has never saved, and struggles to understand finance. Rather than throwing her in the deep end when she doesn't understand it, and when she worries about the security of the money, I think I'll just start off with baby steps and convince her to use her S&S ISA allowance this year!

    Thanks again for all the excellent advice on here. :)
    KiKi
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
  • jimjames
    jimjames Posts: 17,596 Forumite
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    edited 12 November 2010 at 12:26AM
    Its a perfectly logical consideration on her part when being asked to put money into something that you dont necessarily understand. I was the same when I started but with a lot of experience down the line know more about specific areas.

    Part of the problem is the way the mainstream press treat stories about the stock market. Its always "£50 billion wiped off share prices" which gives one view of risk rather than Mrs Smith from Devon invested £100 per month and now has £50,000 in her portfolio rather than the £10,000 she would have had in the bank.

    These numbers are made up but you get the idea of how the media run the dramatic stories not the ones about the successful long term investors.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
  • KiKi
    KiKi Posts: 5,377 Forumite
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    jimjames wrote: »
    Its a perfectly logical consideration on her part when being asked to put money into something that you dont necessarily understand. I was the same when I started but with a lot of experience down the line know more about specific areas.

    Well, this is the thing; I see lots of posters on these boards signing up for things (particularly credit cards) that they don't understand, then posting about how they feel scammed by the companies! There tends to be little sympathy for it, understandably, and my friend shouldn't sign up to something she doesn't understand or have confidence in.

    Part of the problem is the way the mainstream press treat stories about the stock market. Its always "£50 billion wiped off share prices" which gives one view of risk rather than Mrs Smith from Devon invested £100 per month and now has £50,000 in her portfolio rather than the £10,000 she would have had in the bank.

    All numbers are made up but you get the idea of how the media run the dramatic stories not the ones about the successful long term investors.

    Absolutely! An ex-colleague of mine regularly talks me through his investment products, and it's only by chatting to him that I've come to some understanding of how it all works. He lost some shares in Northern Rock when it crashed a few years ago, but that loss was nothing compared to how well he's done with other funds!

    Thanks again
    KiKi
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,316 Forumite
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    Absolutely! An ex-colleague of mine regularly talks me through his investment products, and it's only by chatting to him that I've come to some understanding of how it all works. He lost some shares in Northern Rock when it crashed a few years ago, but that loss was nothing compared to how well he's done with other funds!

    Remember back to 2008 in September when the markets dropped heavily and quickly (as they normally do in a stockmarket crash) and the news had tracker on screen and making big deals of how much was being lost. it was big new coverage. Yet did you know in 2009 you had one of the biggest growth years on record on the stockmarket. When it goes down it gets lots of coverage. When it goes up it gets far less.

    Other things to look out for is emphasis. When something goes down and its bad that its gone down then they use words like "plummet".

    Or, they try to make the figure sound bigger than it is. That was common with respossessions data last year where they used percentage increases rather than actual figures. That was because the actual figures were coming off low amounts and despite the recesssion, the repossession figures were low and lower than the last recession. Yet when expressed in percentage terms as an increase, they sounded higher.

    And last, a favorite is "since records began". There were frequent times when bad data was referred to as the worst since records began. However, a number of times, the records only started in the mid 90s after the last recession. So, the records up to that point had only had growth years and no recession. So by default the recession data this time would be the worst since records began.

    You would think this is the first financial crisis there has been. However, there have been 8 since 1956. They average once every 7 years. The problem this time is that there was a longer gap between them and more of a bubble to burst. So, nearly a whole generation had not experienced a recession. Plus, we had 24 hour news that loves to feed on the negative.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    The best available guarantee over 5 years comes in two versions.

    (A) Stick the money in fixed-rate deposits and you can easily guarantee 115-120% of the original capital.

    (B) Or, you can use index-linked gilts to protect 100% of the real value of the capital, but at current prices you won't get much above that.

    Settling for any smaller guarantee is gambling the difference in the hope of increasing it, at the risk of losing it. There's nothing special about guaranteeing 100% of the original capital in inflated money. That's not the point where you start losing - at that point, you've lost quite a lot already.

    Tricky one after 50. Personally I think diminishing returns sets in - the extra things you can buy if you've won aren't worth as much as the things you can't buy if you've lost.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • dunstonh wrote: »
    From what you say she is risking the money then. Living off the inheritance puts her at shortfall risk and inflation risk

    Using lifetime cashflow forecasting can mean the shortfall and inflation risk can be managed/avoided. The problem is most IFAs wouldnt want you to know that, so choose not to use the tools.

    Better to tell you there is a risk (even if there isnt) so you invest in a commission based product.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,316 Forumite
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    Using lifetime cashflow forecasting can mean the shortfall and inflation risk can be managed/avoided. The problem is most IFAs wouldnt want you to know that, so choose not to use the tools.

    Using an excel spreadsheet with a graphical front end doesnt magically give you 5% a year.
    Better to tell you there is a risk (even if there isnt) so you invest in a commission based product.

    Better than some CFP spouting rubbish about how much better their method is without actually addressing the issues.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • feesarefare
    feesarefare Posts: 348 Forumite
    edited 12 November 2010 at 1:18PM
    dunstonh wrote: »
    Using an excel spreadsheet with a graphical front end doesnt magically give you 5% a year.

    Who mentioned excel spreadsheets?

    http://www.financialplanningweek.org.uk/financial-planning/Financial-Planning-Software.cfm

    Stick to commenting on things you have knowledge about.

    But then again as a transactional salesman your quite happy to speak about things that you have no knowledge/qualifications in.

    Better than some CFP spouting rubbish about how much better their method is without actually addressing the issues

    lol

    Why the hostility towards the qualified IFA's?
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