Duplicate Tax Disc -on taxed car with no tax disc, bought at auction

[john539]

I have just bought a 2nd hand car at auction which did not come with a tax disc.

I checked DVLA Vehicle Enquiry & found it's taxed till end of September.

According to DVLA website I can apply for a duplicate tax disc if I am the Registered Keeper, which I now am. DVLA website does not seem to distinguish between current/previous owners of car or tax disc.

How to apply for a duplicate tax disc
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040

Download 'Duplicate vehicle licence disc application form' - form V20
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=98476&Rendition=Web

The previous owner may or may not have the previous tax disc & may intend to get a refund.

Can I get a Duplicate Tax Disc before they get a refund ?
.

[anewman]

They'd have got a refund already, or otherwise by the end of this month to ensure they don't lose out on one of the unused months.

[terryw]

I have just bought a 2nd hand car at auction which did not come with a tax disc.

I checked DVLA Vehicle Enquiry & found it's taxed till end of September.

According to DVLA website I can apply for a duplicate tax disc if I am the Registered Keeper, which I now am.

How to apply for a duplicate tax disc
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040

Download 'Duplicate vehicle licence disc application form' - form V20
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=98476&Rendition=Web

The previous owner may or may not have the previous tax disc & may intend to get a refund.

Can I get a Duplicate Tax Disc before they get a refund ?

Sorry but no. You did not buy the vehicle with a valid tax disc which you have lost.

terryw

[Keith]

Technically you can, but you need to have the V5 in your name before you could.
However, how would you legally answer question 3?

[john539]

Look at the DVLA links, the DVLA are only interested in who is the Registered Keeper when they process request. If my name is there, they will process.

If previous owner does not apply for refund quick (in next few weeks), it seems I can get a Duplicate.

[john539]

Sorry but no. You did not buy the vehicle with a valid tax disc which you have lost.
I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner.

As far as I know it's lost.

[terryw]

I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner.

As far as I know it's lost.

You bought the car at an auction. The tax disc was not include in the lot. Read the description and listen to the auctioneer

bw

terryw

[john539]

You bought the car at an auction. The tax disc was not include in the lot. Read the description and listen to the auctioneer
Auctioneer didn't mention tax disc.

If it's still taxed in 1-2 weeeks should I get the Duplicate tax disc ?

Would the auctioneer know or be interested, as the DVLA don't seem to be, they are only interested in who is the Registered Keeper.

[Keith]

If the auctioneer didn't mention it, it's not included in the sale.

Think of it another way, say you get a duplicate, then the previous owner claims their rightful refund. I wonder if the DVLA will just shrug their shoulders about your fraudulent claim for a duplicate tax disc

[john539]

If the auctioneer didn't mention it, it's not included in the sale.

Think of it another way, say you get a duplicate, then the previous owner claims their rightful refund. I wonder if the DVLA will just shrug their shoulders about your fraudulent claim for a duplicate tax disc
You're reading too much into it.

The only knowledge I have of the tax disc is that the car is taxed & I dont have it.

I do not know where the previous tax disc is, whether the previous owner even has it & what they they intend to do with it.

The DVLA are only interested in who the Registered Keeper is.

[Keith]

You've bought a car with no tax disc, yes?

I guess you've found out using vehicle enquiry that it is taxed, yes?

You did not purchase the tax which is currently shown against the vehicle, agree?

The former owner of the vehicle may be holding the original tax disc and plan to get a refund, they may not, they may have just thought stuff the dealer I'll keep the tax.

You then go ahead with your plan which from looking at the form you can't legally fill in. I'll draw your attention to the second line of A. Which reads "Your original"

The former owner then goes ahead and gets a refund.

The DVLA now have a shortfall in tax and either come after you or just cancel the duplicate disc making your vehicle on the road untaxed and you back on here when it is clamped.

But never mind, the DVLA are only interested in who the registered keeper is. Course they are.

[john539]

You've bought a car with no tax disc, yes?

I guess you've found out using vehicle enquiry that it is taxed, yes?

You did not purchase the tax which is currently shown against the vehicle, agree?

The former owner of the vehicle may be holding the original tax disc and plan to get a refund, they may not, they may have just thought stuff the dealer I'll keep the tax.

You then go ahead with your plan which from looking at the form you can't legally fill in. I'll draw your attention to the second line of A. Which reads "Your original"

The former owner then goes ahead and gets a refund.

The DVLA now have a shortfall in tax and either come after you or just cancel the duplicate disc making your vehicle on the road untaxed and you back on here when it is clamped.

But never mind, the DVLA are only interested in who the registered keeper is. Course they are.
Sorry you've lost me, unless you're being pedantic.

The "Your" applies to whoever is applying for a Duplicate.

The former owner won't get a refund if I have got a Duplicate. :rotfl: :T

The DVLA always word their rules & forms very very carefully.
You will note they only refer to Registered Keeper.

[goldspanners]

if you are so sure then why ask?
just apply for the tax disc then.

[Altarf]

I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner. As far as I know it's lost.

And I am sure that if you believe your logic then you will honestly answer question 3, and put in the box the truth that 'you have bought a car and there was no tax disc on it, therefore as the DVLA show it as taxed, it must lost'.

Will the DVLA send you a replacement disc - oh look, flying pigs.

[S0litaire]

Guess he didn't read the bit where the previous owner needs to send his "TAX DISK" back to the DVLA for his refund. The DVLA will spot you applying for a replacement saying you lost it. (Ain't that called fraud?)

Guess what the DVLA might do.....

[john539]

Guess he didn't read the bit where the previous owner needs to send his "TAX DISK" back to the DVLA for his refund. The DVLA will spot you applying for a replacement saying you lost it. (Ain't that called fraud?)

Guess what the DVLA might do.....
The DVLA will do nothing, they only want money.
They will deal with the 1st request that comes in, issue a Duplicate or Refund.

If the previous owner has a problem, they'll leave it to him to sort out.

[john539]

And I am sure that if you believe your logic then you will honestly answer question 3, and put in the box the truth that 'you have bought a car and there was no tax disc on it, therefore as the DVLA show it as taxed, it must lost'.

Will the DVLA send you a replacement disc - oh look, flying pigs.
Do we know the previous owner has the tax disc ?

No, we don't.

[S0litaire]

Do we know the previous owner has the tax disc ?

No, we don't.

Do you actually READ these posts?

once the DVLA has received a claim to refund the tax disk (with said tax disk provided as evidence) a couple of clicks on a keyboard, then the DVLA database is updated to sat that the car no longer has a valid Tax disk.

you are happily motoring along doing 65mpg on the motor way then Mr Plod in his panda car comes up behind you and flashes his wee blue lights.

Guess what the little box called "ANPR" has beeped to tell the polds in the panda that your Numberplate, according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!

so it's probably gonna cost you £300+ (£60 fine and points £120 for them to tow it away plus £20 per day storage) to get your car back. Those are rough estimates.

That's not even including the trouble you'll get in for if you DID get a disk from the DVLA think the legal phrase "obtaining with deception" my get banded about...


But if you think you'll get away with it! Go for it!

[Iamthesmartestmanalive]

What a !!!!!! the OP is

This would be called theft/deception

You do not have a valid tax disc which you have a legal obligation to therefore you have no right to make a claim

You could face prosecution and likely heavy legal costs

But hey you know best, go ahead with your fraud, I hope you get caught

[Keith]

Sorry you've lost me, unless you're being pedantic.

The "Your" applies to whoever is applying for a Duplicate.

The former owner won't get a refund if I have got a Duplicate. :rotfl: :T

The DVLA always word their rules & forms very very carefully.
You will note they only refer to Registered Keeper.

They are very careful with their wording for a reason. The word "your" is a possessive word indicating something that belongs to you. Whilst completing the form you can not answer the question where is your tax disc because you have never had possession of one.

When the application for a refund is recieved it will be passed to the higher department to sort out, which is when your duplicate will be cancelled.

I just googled duplicate car tax fraud on google and this is the number one hit, a mod should change the title to "How not to commit VED Fraud"

[S0litaire]

John here's a question to ask the police when they stop you.
"Are they filming for Sky or Ch5?"

Let us know the answer so we can all watch... :D

[scotgirl2]

i was in similar cicumstances a few years back, i had to get my own tax disk in my own name after i registered the vehicle in my own name.

just a quick question? when the car was won at auction, did it have any description relating to the tax status? if so, and the car was a low price based on having no tax disk, you should check with previous owner name and address, whose name will be on the logbook V5 when you won the auction.

[photome]

Having read through all the posts..I cannot understand why some posters come on here, ask a question, and then disagree with every logical reply!

[terryw]

i was in similar cicumstances a few years back, i had to get my own tax disk in my own name after i registered the vehicle in my own name.

just a quick question? when the car was won at auction, did it have any description relating to the tax status? if so, and the car was a low price based on having no tax disk, you should check with previous owner name and address, whose name will be on the logbook V5 when you won the auction.

The vast majority of cars sold at auction do not have a tax disc. This is why police wait just a few yards down the road to catch the chancers who decide to drive a vehicle home. There is no point at all contacting the previous owners about the tax status as this would have been made abundantly clear at the auction if the tax was being sold sold with the vehicle.

The auction description will make it quite clear if there is a tax disc. If the auctioneer does not say "vehicle has a tax disc" then there is no disc. In exactly the same way that if the auctioneer does not state "there is a service history" or "the vehicle has a brand new exhaust" etc then you can assume that there is no service history or brand new exhaust etc

terryw

[john539]

Do you actually READ these posts?

once the DVLA has received a claim to refund the tax disk (with said tax disk provided as evidence) a couple of clicks on a keyboard, then the DVLA database is updated to sat that the car no longer has a valid Tax disk.

you are happily motoring along doing 65mpg on the motor way then Mr Plod in his panda car comes up behind you and flashes his wee blue lights.

Guess what the little box called "ANPR" has beeped to tell the polds in the panda that your Numberplate, according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!

so it's probably gonna cost you £300+ (£60 fine and points £120 for them to tow it away plus £20 per day storage) to get your car back. Those are rough estimates.

That's not even including the trouble you'll get in for if you DID get a disk from the DVLA think the legal phrase "obtaining with deception" my get banded about...


But if you think you'll get away with it! Go for it!
You obviously don't understand.
We don't know if the previous owner has the original disc, we don't know when they may if ever apply for a refund, it may be next week, it may be in 1 month.

I apply for & get a Duplicate disc before the previous owner applies for a refund.

You are an idiot because you said:
"according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!"

which is completely WRONG!

Some people just don't have a clue.

[john539]

They are very careful with their wording for a reason. The word "your" is a possessive word indicating something that belongs to you. Whilst completing the form you can not answer the question where is your tax disc because you have never had possession of one.

When the application for a refund is recieved it will be passed to the higher department to sort out, which is when your duplicate will be cancelled.

I just googled duplicate car tax fraud on google and this is the number one hit, a mod should change the title to "How not to commit VED Fraud"
Read Section F very carefully, once the Duplicate is issued to the Registered Keeper, the original is No Longer Valid, therefore there is no refund to claim on the original.

Are you a fool, the reason this thread is No1 hit on Google, is because there is only one thread with the words you entered.

[S0litaire]

John what you smoking?

If you don't have a valid Tax disk you immediately invalidate any insurance policy you have (read the small print).

I Admit you got me with the MOT, it's valid till it runs out.

But the DVLA database is updated to the police every 12 - 24 hours.

As you said YOU don't know if the seller had a tax disk. But the balance of probabilities says he HAS his tax disk and want's his 4 months or so of TAX back.

He must have had a tax disk to get it to the Auction house. otherwise it would have been sold at probably half the price you paid for it. (I don't know what you paid for it but for all the effort you're putting into getting FREE road tax it must have left you skint!!).

[Iamthesmartestmanalive]

You obviously don't understand.
We don't know if the previous owner has the original disc, we don't know when they may if ever apply for a refund, it may be next week, it may be in 1 month.

I apply for & get a Duplicate disc before the previous owner applies for a refund.

You are an idiot because you said:
"according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!"

which is completely WRONG!

Some people just don't have a clue.

So you are basically admitting to deception???

The car was sold as seen with no road tax, you have no legal right to a tax disc and in claiming one -including making fraudulent declaration- you are commiting a criminal offence, Can we put it any simpler for your retarded brain

It is illegal what you are proposing, now !!!! off

[john539]

John what you smoking?

If you don't have a valid Tax disk you immediately invalidate any insurance policy you have (read the small print).

I Admit you got me with the MOT, it's valid till it runs out.

But the DVLA database is updated to the police every 12 - 24 hours.
Tax, MOT, Insurance are all legally separate.

If one expires, it does NOT invalidate the others, which is obvious.

But to drive legally on the road you need Tax, MOT, Insurance, so if one is expired, you are committing other offences.

[john539]

So you are basically admitting to deception???

The car was sold as seen with no road tax, you have no legal right to a tax disc and in claiming one -including making fraudulent declaration- you are commiting a criminal offence, Can we put it any simpler for your retarded brain

It is illegal what you are proposing, now !!!! off
Where has anyone said that ?

If you have nothing useful to say you can go to another thread.

[photome]

John are you going to fraudulantely claim that you had tax or not. You know very well that if you claim for a duplicate tax disc that is what you are doing as you have neither bought tax for this car or paid for the car to include the tax.

[Jvic28]

Do you actually READ these posts?

once the DVLA has received a claim to refund the tax disk (with said tax disk provided as evidence) a couple of clicks on a keyboard, then the DVLA database is updated to sat that the car no longer has a valid Tax disk.

you are happily motoring along doing 65mpg on the motor way then Mr Plod in his panda car comes up behind you and flashes his wee blue lights.

Guess what the little box called "ANPR" has beeped to tell the polds in the panda that your Numberplate, according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!

so it's probably gonna cost you £300+ (£60 fine and points £120 for them to tow it away plus £20 per day storage) to get your car back. Those are rough estimates.

That's not even including the trouble you'll get in for if you DID get a disk from the DVLA think the legal phrase "obtaining with deception" my get banded about...


But if you think you'll get away with it! Go for it!

I work for a car dealership and regularly surrender tax discs for refunds on part exchanges. I have often received a letter stating that a duplicate disc has been issued and that the disc I have surrendered is now invalid and will therefore not be refunded. As far as I am aware, it never goes any further than this.

However, I think it would be unethical for you to claim a duplicate as the original owner may wish to claim his refund and you bought the vehicle at auction where it was not stated that it was taxed.

x

[Iamthesmartestmanalive]

Where has anyone said that ?

If you have nothing useful to say you can go to another thread.


You have said that

You purchased a vehicle at auction with no road tax included, your now in the process of making a fraudulent application to get one

That is gaining an advantage through deception and hence fraud

And why post if your not listening, not one person has agreed with you

As for insurance, if your car is not road legal (i.e road tax) then any insurance may become void or reduced, given your deception will be uncovered and you will have no legal right to the tax it will be withdrawn at which point your vehicle is not road legal

You really are a !!!!ing retard

Hopefully you do us all a favour and crash and kill yourself on the way to the post box

[john539]

You have said that

You purchased a vehicle at auction with no road tax included, your now in the process of making a fraudulent application to get one

That is gaining an advantage through deception and hence fraud

And why post if your not listening, not one person has agreed with you

As for insurance, if your car is not road legal (i.e road tax) then any insurance may become void or reduced, given your deception will be uncovered and you will have no legal right to the tax it will be withdrawn at which point your vehicle is not road legal

You really are a !!!!ing retard

Hopefully you do us all a favour and crash and kill yourself on the way to the post box
Eh, did you get out of the bed on the wrong side ?

Ps: thanked you by mistake.

[john539]

I work for a car dealership and regularly surrender tax discs for refunds on part exchanges. I have often received a letter stating that a duplicate disc has been issued and that the disc I have surrendered is now invalid and will therefore not be refunded. As far as I am aware, it never goes any further than this.

However, I think it would be unethical for you to claim a duplicate as the original owner may wish to claim his refund and you bought the vehicle at auction where it was not stated that it was taxed.

x
Now that is a good post.

But the situation you describe is slightly different.
You seem to be saying that people who have part-exchanged their car with the tax disc have then got a Duplicate for a car they no longer have.

[Keith]

Read Section F very carefully, once the Duplicate is issued to the Registered Keeper, the original is No Longer Valid, therefore there is no refund to claim on the original.

Are you a fool, the reason this thread is No1 hit on Google, is because there is only one thread with the words you entered.

Ffs, do you understand possession? You do NOT possess the tax to this vehicle, you did not purchase the vehicle with tax. You have no right to claim a duplicate disc. Read the very first section of the V20 very carefully, it's carefully worded for legal purposes

You should of considered the lack of tax when purchasing the vehicle, not tried to scam your way to a few free months, until either the current disc expires or is cancelled. If it is cancelled you will not know, so your vehicle will be on the highway without tax without you knowing, at which point you will start to alert ANPR systems, are you going to check every day to see if the tax is valid?

Lets read Section A of the V20 together:-

You will need to apply for a duplicate tax disc if:
Your original disc has been lost, stolen, destroyed or spoilt in any way.

Now answer this simple question, what happened to "your" original disc?

[john539]

You will need to apply for a duplicate tax disc if:
Your original disc has been lost, stolen, destroyed or spoilt in any way.

Now answer this simple question, what happened to "your" original disc?
Presumed lost if previous owner does not apply for refund quick.

DVLA are only interested in who the Registered Keeper is.

So any person with the tax disc (previous owner, motor dealer) can apply for a refund or the Registered Keeper can apply for a Duplicate.

[Iamthesmartestmanalive]

Presumed lost if previous owner does not apply for refund quick.

DVLA are only interested in who the Registered Keeper is.

So any person with the tax disc (previous owner, motor dealer) can apply for a refund or the Registered Keeper can apply for a Duplicate.


The DVLA might not be but the courts are

What you are proposing is ILLEGAL

ARE YOU !!!!ING THICK OR JUST ILLITERATE?????????????

[Inactive]

Why bother posting a reply, the OP is certain that he is correct, so just let him get on with it, I really cannot understand why he even bothered posting on here, he obviously has all of the answers.

( Even if they are incorrect ).:rolleyes:

[S0litaire]

Personally I think he's Nucking Futs! But it's his Licence, car & bank balance! Just so long as he's not one of those "boy racers", That one of my mates will have to end up scrapeing and spounging off of a wall after skidding out and hitting it at over 90.

[john539]

The DVLA might not be but the courts are

What you are proposing is ILLEGAL

ARE YOU !!!!ING THICK OR JUST ILLITERATE?????????????


Do you understand English, read any posts or just come to rant ?

[john539]

Personally I think he's Nucking Futs! But it's his Licence, car & bank balance! Just so long as he's not one of those "boy racers", That one of my mates will have to end up scrapeing and spounging off of a wall after skidding out and hitting it at over 90.
That says it all.

[john539]

Why bother posting a reply, the OP is certain that he is correct, so just let him get on with it, I really cannot understand why he even bothered posting on here, he obviously has all of the answers.

( Even if they are incorrect ).:rolleyes:
The world is full of clueless muppets.

Prove anything I have said is wrong.

[Nicifer_noonoo]

John, don't be so mean. You bought a second hand car WITHOUT a tax disc. Don't try to con the original owner out of the money they are entitled to with the refund; there's a line between moneysaving and just plain mean.

[photome]

having read through some of johns other threads he has started it seems he rarely takes any notice of the responses and seems to know it all.....so why bother.

Like I said in previous post he KNOWS he doesnt own the tax but it doesnt seem to make any difference to him

[redux]

Now that is a good post.

But the situation you describe is slightly different.
You seem to be saying that people who have part-exchanged their car with the tax disc have then got a Duplicate for a car they no longer have.

Now I see why so many people are saying you aren't comprehending the replies properly

The new owners are applying for the duplicate tax disc, working exactly the same flanker on the dealership that you are about to pull on some unknown person who's naive enough to think they'll get their refund

I'm amazed you bothered to post this thread, only to rebut all the answers

It may be that you are correct, even if you have to more or less cheat the declaration about whether you bought it with a tax disc, but boasting about ripping someone off really is the pits.

[goldspanners]

Now I see why so many people are saying you aren't comprehending the replies properly

The new owners are applying for the duplicate tax disc, working exactly the same flanker on the dealership that you are about to pull on some unknown person who's naive enough to think they'll get their refund

I'm amazed you bothered to post this thread, only to rebut all the answers

It may be that you are correct, even if you have to more or less cheat the declaration about whether you bought it with a tax disc, but boasting about ripping someone off really is the pits.

exactly,this site is about money saving,not money scamming.

[john539]

Now I see why so many people are saying you aren't comprehending the replies properly

The new owners are applying for the duplicate tax disc, working exactly the same flanker on the dealership that you are about to pull on some unknown person who's naive enough to think they'll get their refund

I'm amazed you bothered to post this thread, only to rebut all the answers

It may be that you are correct, even if you have to more or less cheat the declaration about whether you bought it with a tax disc, but boasting about ripping someone off really is the pits.
No they are not the same.

The new car owner who part exchanged their old car including the tax disc, then gets a duplicate tax disc, would know the exact situation regarding the tax disc.

All I know is my car is taxed for 4 months, I do not have the tax disc & probably the previous owner will get a refund.

But what if they don't, what if the disc HAS BEEN LOST.
Maybe it has been lost.

By getting a duplicate I am reusing/recycling the old tax disc, being more efficient & being environmentally friendly at the same time.

How good is that !

[S0litaire]

...
... I am reusing/recycling the old tax disc,
...
...
How good is that !

Why don't you go to this guys house and "Recycle" his TV and DVD player while you're at it!!!

2 questions

1) Did YOU buy a Tax Disk? NO
2) Was their one in the car when you bought it? NO

Result = you have NO right to it.

[goldspanners]

By getting a duplicate I am reusing/recycling the old tax disc, being more efficient & being environmentally friendly at the same time.

How good is that !

how are you? a new disc still has to be printed,they dont send you out an old one.the same work goes into making a duplicate.

i think you are just trying to take a rise out of this board.

[john539]

how are you? a new disc still has to be printed,they dont send you out an old one.the same work goes into making a duplicate.

i think you are just trying to take a rise out of this board.
Paying tax twice is not Green or environmenatlly friendly.

Also you can offset your carbon footprint by buying carbon credits & planting trees in Brazil.

[goldspanners]

Paying tax twice is not Green or environmenatlly friendly.

Also you can offset your carbon footprint by buying carbon credits & planting trees in Brazil.

hahaha,and your going to do this with the money you save from scamming the tax? :rotfl:

[vikingaero]

John,

The DVLA records aren't 100% accurate. The disc may have already been encashed.

Put it this way:

Let's assume that I put my car into auction and took the tax disc with me with the intention of obtaining a refund.

John buys the car and applies for a duplicate disc on the basis that I "may have lost it". If he obtains a disc then he has deprived me of the £ remaining on that disk and that is theft. I would go and report him to the Police and expect them to act on it.

[Janeyjaz]

Mt car was smashed into by someone who did not put his handbrake on - they admitted responsibility, my car went to garage to be repaired - then the insurance company range me to say they were writing the car off, they made me an offer and said they would put instructions in writing - I got a letter from insurance company and they told me to contact them to check the whereabouts of the car so I could remove my personal belongings - I did and they told me they had sent it to the salvage yard and they would return my possession to me - including a tax disc valid till the end of Jan 2009 - the next day the salvage yard rang - nothing in the car, all my belongings were missing and the tax disc - rang insurance company and they said to send them a list and they would compensate me - but I would have to claim my tax from DVLC - still waiting and this happened in March, a week later someone rang my husband to say that he had bought my car at auction and could he have the spare key for it.

[MORPH3US]

This thread is hillarious!

Can everyobe replying just remember please (no matter how hard it is sometimes) please be nice to all moneysavers (i.e. everyone on this board)... thats not me trying to be a mod or brown nose, I just don't see a need for swearing and shouting...

In reply to the OP (for all the good it'll do) I think legally and morally you have no right to ask for a tax replacement....

For the sake of £30 (?), I wouldn't risk it.

[terryw]

This thread is hillarious!

Can everyobe replying just remember please (no matter how hard it is sometimes) please be nice to all moneysavers (i.e. everyone on this board)... thats not me trying to be a mod or brown nose, I just don't see a need for swearing and shouting...

In reply to the OP (for all the good it'll do) I think legally and morally you have no right to ask for a tax replacement....

For the sake of £30 (?), I wouldn't risk it.

Spoilsport...I think he should risk it.http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

terryw

[wildbri]

I keep seeing quotes ( that a vehicle that not taxed is not insured) this cannot be true, if you sorn your car and keep it on the drive or in your garage then it is still covered with the insurance you have paid

[john539]

Let's assume that I put my car into auction and took the tax disc with me with the intention of obtaining a refund.

John buys the car and applies for a duplicate disc on the basis that I "may have lost it". If he obtains a disc then he has deprived me of the £ remaining on that disk and that is theft. I would go and report him to the Police and expect them to act on it.
Do you expect the Police to take action against the DVLA for issuing a Duplicate according to their rules ? :rotfl:

You've reported it, then the Police have to verify what you say, then verify with the DVLA, verify with me, collect all evidence, then what ?

Then go round the merry circle again & again & again.

Don't hold your breath. :beer:

[john539]

I keep seeing quotes ( that a vehicle that not taxed is not insured) this cannot be true, if you sorn your car and keep it on the drive or in your garage then it is still covered with the insurance you have paid
Yes, you will see a lot of rubbish spouted.

Tax, MOT, Insurance are all legally separate.
If one expires, it does NOT invalidate the others.

Lack of Tax does not invalidate MOT or Insurance.
Lack of MOT does not invalidate Tax or Insurance.
Lack of Insurance does not invalidate Tax or MOT.
.

[Keith]

Yes, you will see a lot of rubbish spouted.

Tax, MOT, Insurance are all legally separate.
If one expires, it does NOT invalidate the others.

Lack of Tax does not invalidate MOT or Insurance.
Lack of MOT does not invalidate Tax or Insurance.
Lack of Insurance does not invalidate Tax or MOT.
.

Unless it is specified in the terms and conditions of the insurance.

You've reported it, then the Police have to verify what you say, then verify with the DVLA, verify with me, collect all evidence, then what ?

Well that is the job of the police. I'd be more worried about the DVLA simply cancelling your duplicate disc, and your car being towed or clamped.

The DVLA have a legal department who deal with this kind of thing.

Strangely it's part of that department who check all their forms, just so that the wording is acceptable to someone who wants to scam £50 ;)

[john539]

Unless it is specified in the terms and conditions of the insurance.

Well that is the job of the police. I'd be more worried about the DVLA simply cancelling your duplicate disc, and your car being towed or clamped.

The DVLA have a legal department who deal with this kind of thing.

Strangely it's part of that department who check all their forms, just so that the wording is acceptable to someone who wants to scam £50 ;)
So, is it specified in your Insurance, go check.

And you know the inner workings of the DVLA ! :rotfl:

As far as Police & DVLA know, it could just be the previous owner trying to scam the new car owner. :p :rotfl:

Things are starting to look complicated for the Police & DVLA.
Somehow I think they've got other things to do & will just tell previous owner it's up to him to sort it all out.

[goldspanners]

So, is it specified in your Insurance, go check.

And you know the inner workings of the DVLA ! :rotfl:

As far as Police & DVLA know, it could just be the previous owner trying to scam the new car owner. :p :rotfl:

Things are starting to look complicated for the Police & DVLA.
Somehow I think they've got other things to do & will just tell previous owner it's up to him to sort it all out.

i dont think you understand ANPR,this is the type of thing traffic police are set up to find.i think they will pull you over,tell you that the vehicle isnt taxed (if the previous owner cashes in tax disc) your vehicle will then be towed away from the exact spot they stopped you,then you will have to get it taxed within 7 days or the car will be crushed,plus you will have to pay charges for the priveledge.

you still havent answered why you asked this question when you clearly think you already had the answer.

[terryw]

So, is it specified in your Insurance, go check.

And you know the inner workings of the DVLA ! :rotfl:

As far as Police & DVLA know, it could just be the previous owner trying to scam the new car owner. :p :rotfl:

Things are starting to look complicated for the Police & DVLA.
Somehow I think they've got other things to do & will just tell previous owner it's up to him to sort it all out.

John, you have a perfect case and you really should go ahead with this. Please do it and be sure to let us know how you get on.

terryw

[Keith]

I don't need to check, I know my insurance states Roadworthy and not requiring MOT or tax. But some do. I also know how much my car cost to tax, because I'm not some drain on society who scammed a few months out of the previous owner.

Yes, unfortunately I do know that they have a legal department, as I've been in correspondence with them before.

You'll tell the previous owner to do something? I'd tell you to get !!!!ed, it's his tax and up to him what he does with it.

[S0litaire]

I keep seeing quotes ( that a vehicle that not taxed is not insured) this cannot be true, if you sorn your car and keep it on the drive or in your garage then it is still covered with the insurance you have paid

Yes that's because it's not on the road! SORN (Statuary OFF ROAD Notification). It's covered by your insurance.

[john539]

i dont think you understand ANPR,this is the type of thing traffic police are set up to find.i think they will pull you over,tell you that the vehicle isnt taxed (if the previous owner cashes in tax disc) your vehicle will then be towed away from the exact spot they stopped you,then you will have to get it taxed within 7 days or the car will be crushed,plus you will have to pay charges for the priveledge.

you still havent answered why you asked this question when you clearly think you already had the answer.
You watch too many TV programs.

To see if anyone had been in this situation.
Perfectly sensible question to ask & legitimate situation to be in.

[john539]

John, you have a perfect case and you really should go ahead with this. Please do it and be sure to let us know how you get on.
Will do....

[goldspanners]

You watch too many TV programs.

To see if anyone had been in this situation.
Perfectly sensible question to ask & legitimate situation to be in.

on the tv this is when the police are nice,when the cameras arent there its a different story in the back of thier bmws.

but you arent taking on board anybodys opinion,so why ask for it? would you rather we all just agreed with you?

[vikingaero]

Will do....

Whatever the morals and legality etc, somehow I think you will get away with it.:rolleyes:

[Keith]

I just read your past threads, why do you continue to ask questions but not take any of the advice on board?

This website is of no use to you, try www.google.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk)

Anyway, good luck with the refund, is it because the car is not insured and you are driving it on the 3rd party entitlement of your insuance?

[moggylover]

Hope he does it. Hope he gets caught! Sounds like a real piece of work!

[grumpyoldgit]

john 539

I don't agree with your interpretation of the VEL laws BUT well done for sticking to your guns in the face of some offensive comments!

GoG

[photome]

I just read your past threads, why do you continue to ask questions but not take any of the advice on board?

This website is of no use to you, try www.google.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk)

Anyway, good luck with the refund, is it because the car is not insured and you are driving it on the 3rd party entitlement of your insuance?

My guess is he will ignore this reply as he did mine saying much the same thing.

[MORPH3US]

You watch too many TV programs.

Keep telling yourself that John, but I am affraid goldspanners is 100% correct.

A friend of a friend got stopped and that is exactly what happened to her....

[Inactive]

The world is full of clueless muppets.

.


Sure is, look in any mirror, you will see the biggest one on this forum.:rolleyes: :wall:

[gner_ex]

I can actually see where John is coming from. I certainly agree that it is morally wrong, but as to whether it is fraud... I don't know.

I once bought a banger at auction, and went to tax it. The clerk told me that there was already VED on this vehicle and suggested that I apply for a duplicate. I said that that disc was presumably in the post to be cashed in, so I purchased a fresh 12 months disc.

Its certainly an interesting idea though. If http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk shows that a vehicle is taxed, it seems reasonable (to a point) to rely on that and _perhaps_ get a copy of the disc.

But of course, the theft/fraud issue is a valid point.

[MORPH3US]

Could always contact the previous owner and ask what the situation is with the tax...?

[mcjordi]

[quote=gner_ex;11237235]I can actually see where John is coming from. I certainly agree that it is morally wrong, but as to whether it is fraud... I don't know.

I once bought a banger at auction, and went to tax it. The clerk told me that there was already VED on this vehicle and suggested that I apply for a duplicate. I said that that disc was presumably in the post to be cashed in, so I purchased a fresh 12 months disc.

the same happened to me on my corsa i bought at auction, however i rang dvla who said there was tax showing on the vehicle for another 5 months, i was told that a refund may be being process, dvla told me if a car has no tax disc just to get new ved from post office is not worth losing your car over no tax, so i just got a new ved

IF YOU TRY TO DEFRAUD DVLA YOU WILL BE CAUGHT - just buy new ved OP its not worth losing your car.

[Jvic28]

Now that is a good post.

But the situation you describe is slightly different.
You seem to be saying that people who have part-exchanged their car with the tax disc have then got a Duplicate for a car they no longer have.

The situation is slightly different but the point I was trying to make was that they were applying for a duplicate tax disc just before trading in the car (therefore they are still the registered keeper) and giving us the now invalid tax disc and claiming the refund for themselves after handing the car over to us. I think the principle is about the same. They are claiming a refund on a car when no longer own the cars.

x

[john539]

IF YOU TRY TO DEFRAUD DVLA YOU WILL BE CAUGHT - just buy new ved OP its not worth losing your car.
You're not defrauding the DVLA, more like thay are systematically defrauding the public.

When cars change hands the Seller will lose the tax/money on the remainder of the month they are not the owner, the Buyer will likely pay tax for part month they were not the owner.

The DVLA/Government gets 2 lots of Tax for that changeover month.

By reusing lost Tax you are being Green in making efficient use of Tax that has been paid & saving the planet.

[gner_ex]

John, I did NOT write the text that you have quoted as me.

I would be obliged if you (or a moderator) could amend your post. The quote was from MCJORDI.