MOT failure - can I drive car

[lisyloo]

My car has just failed it's MOT but old MOT expires on 10th May.

Can I drive it around in the meantime e.g. to get it to a garage to get it fixed?

[Hintza]

In short yes.

But be aware of things that might put you or others in any danger.

[Riq]

Technically speaking yes.

What if you hit someone and the cause was due to something which failed it's MOT? How would that make you feel?

[lisyloo]

It's welding required but I don't think it's going to fall apart on me in the next few days.
Thanks for the warning though.

[lisyloo]

What if you hit someone and the cause was due to something which failed it's MOT? How would that make you feel?

I will check with the garage that MOT'd it that as to whether it's safe or not.
I suspect it is quite safe but I will check with the people who know about these things.
If there is any hint it's not safe then I'll get it towed, but when I spoke to them this morning they did not show any kind of concern (but I WILL check).

[going2die_rich]

Is your car insurance still valid though if you drive a car knowing full well it's below the accepted standards?

I am sure the car insurance companies will have small print saying it needs to be in a well maintened, road worthy manor, which if you fail an MOT, then surely it's not.

I'd suggest you only use it to literally get it to a garage, as I think it's not worth chancing it for anything more.

[lisyloo]

Is your car insurance still valid though if you drive a car knowing full well it's below the accepted standards?I don't honestly know, which is why I asked the question.
I don't have my documents with me right now.

I'd suggest you only use it to literally get it to a garage, as I think it's not worth chancing it for anything more.I aked the question as I didn't want to "chance" anything.
Do you mean chancing legally or in practice.

I have checked the issue and there is a hole next to rear seat belt anchorage.
I will not be carrying any rear passengers so I don't believe there is a safety issue in practice as I'll be the only person in the car and using the front seat belt.

If you think there are legal issues and that posts 2 and 3 are not right then please let me know.
I have other transport at home to get around in the meantime so it's only a question of getting it to a garage.

[Riq]

I was meaning if it was brake or steering related, but it sounds safe enough to me as long as these holes don't affect the integrity of the car.

My dad has failed his MOT before and driven his car to work a number of times before he booked it in for another test after he fixed it.

It still has a valid MOT certificate so I think you should be okay on the insurance.

But as with anything which we "think", it is best to ring your insurance.

[LandyAndy]

I was meaning if it was brake or steering related, but it sounds safe enough to me as long as these holes don't affect the integrity of the car.

My dad has failed his MOT before and driven his car to work a number of times before he booked it in for another test after he fixed it.

It still has a valid MOT certificate so I think you should be okay on the insurance.

But as with anything which we "think", it is best to ring your insurance.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I know how he feels.

[Riq]

It's funny, because it's true. :cheesy:


Bad choice of words I admit.

[jonathon]

I understand know the mot is connected to a national database once your car has failed its mot you could only drive it to get it repaired and you old mot is no longer valid.

[Jvic28]

As long as your MOT is still valid you are Ok to legally drive around. Not sure on what your insurance would think though. Although as you didn't have to take it for an MOT yet you should be Ok. Once the MOT expires you are only legally able to drive it on the road to a booked appointment for an MOT.

X

[Conor]

It all depends on what it fails on. If the failure means it doesn't comply with the requirements of the road traffic act, you are liable for prosecution for any defects on it should you be stopped at a roadside inspection. You cannot claim you don't know about them because it's failed an MOT.

What did it fail on?

[lisyloo]

What did it fail on?

Nearside rear (rear of sill/inner wheel arch holed) seat belt anchorage prescribed area is excessively corroded [5.1.B.6]

[michaels]

I had an mot fail on the licence plate (it was discoloured) and phoned the insurance company as the garae could not make up a new one there and then because I did not have the log book with me.

Phoned insurance company who said ok to drive but if the licence plate was damaged in any accident it would not be covered and that generally if there were an accident and a known-fault was shown to have contributed then I would not be covered. I think it was a Friday and I actually would have no MOTat all till the Monday when I could get the plate made up. Obviously given that the number plate was unlikely to be the cause of any accidant I risked driving the car. Worth checking with your insurers their policy I think.

[in2deep]

You are knowingly driving a defective car.!

From the moment you fail the mot you could be in trouble if your stopped by the police.

[jeannieblue]

The MOT is valid until 10th May.

[in2deep]

I just found this on an MOT website.

A question that is often asked follows:

If car fails MOT is the old test certificate still valid until its expiry date?

Well the answer does not seem to be found on any of the government information about the MOT test, so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:

"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.
However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT.
This is a very good reason to book your Mot early and give yourself plenty of time to book a retest if needed.


So basically you are NOT legal until its fixed regardless of the current test certificate.

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

An MOT certificate only certifies that on the day of testing the vehicle was roadworthy.

Technically your vehicle is no longer roadworthy, and therefore I wouldn't drive it.

[lisyloo]

OK, I think I've now got to the bottom of it.
Thanks for all your help.

You ARE allowed to drive to a garage for repairs (which I did last night) and to a booked MOT.

Of course I would not take any rear passengers knowing there was a problem with the rear seat belt anchorage.

The car is insured and the insurance comapny cannot reject a claim unless the fault was a contributory factor in an accident.
My view is that the chance of the rear seat belt anchorage causing an accident whilst not in use is virtually non-existant. although it could cause a problem is there was an accident and it failed (hence no rear passengers until fixed).

It was quite legal and insured for me to take the car to the garage last night for repairs.

[Wig]

You ARE allowed to drive to a garage for repairs (which I did last night) and to a booked MOT.

AFAIK, you are theoretically allowed to drive it, to a garage (pre booked) or to another MOT station (pre booked), but the only people who can stop you are the police, not the MOT station that failed you. You will only be guilty of an offence IF the fail was correctly issued AND the failed item renders the car unroadworthy.

The car is insured and the insurance comapny cannot reject a claim unless the fault was a contributory factor in an accident.
That's correct.

It was quite legal and insured for me to take the car to the garage last night for repairs.Was it? I don't think it was, insured yes, legal maybe not. But I would have done the same thing.

Of course the government does not help matters when they say as part of the terms and conditions of an MOT fail.....
"If the vehicle is taken away from the testing station and returned the next day for retest on any of the following items..... no retest fee, partial examination." Or similar words to that effect and also talks about taking the vehicle away for up to 10 working days.

You are of course able to transport the car on a trailer away from the station. But in practice the government know that 1000's of people drive cars away from MOT fails probably every week, if not every day.


Perhaps a question could be asked of everyone reading this, it might give us an idea of how the police would view driving from a testing station....

When the police have special operations at the side of the road to pull in and inspect passing vehicles for roadworthyness, what do they do when they find people driving cars with various faults? I don't think they impound every vehicle, they probably give drivers 7 day producers.

[BillScarab]

The following is taken from the directgov website

"
The need for an MOT certificate

It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:

taking it to a test station for a test booked in advance
bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the test, to a place of repair
taking it to or bringing it away from a place where, by previous arrangement, repairs are to be made or have been made to fix the problems that caused the vehicle to fail its testEven in the above circumstances you may still be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if it doesn’t comply with various Regulations affecting its construction and use. Additionally the insurance may not be valid."

Link here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022108)So yes you can legally drive it without an MOT to and from a place of repair or to and from a testing station but if the items that caused the fail make it unroadworthy you could be breaking the law still (although a different one).

[Wig]

The following is taken from the directgov website

"
The need for an MOT certificate

It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:
taking it to a test station for a test booked in advance
bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the test, to a place of repair
taking it to or bringing it away from a place where, by previous arrangement, repairs are to be made or have been made to fix the problems that caused the vehicle to fail its testEven in the above circumstances you may still be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if it doesn’t comply with various Regulations affecting its construction and use. Additionally the insurance may not be valid."

Link here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022108)So yes you can legally drive it without an MOT to and from a place of repair or to and from a testing station but if the items that caused the fail make it unroadworthy you could be breaking the law still (although a different one).




That is a contradiction though, the great majority of MOT fail items (if not all) would render a vehicle unroadworthy, the only one I can think of that would not be would be lamps during daylight hours.

What MOT fail items can you think of which would not render the vehicle unroadworthy? To draw conclusion from that bit of text that you can LEGALLY drive away from an MOT fail is entirely wrong IMHO.

[BillScarab]

Not sure, but preumably emissions wouldn't make it unroadworthy. Obscured numberplate maybe? Would a passenger door that couldn't be opened make it unroadworthy? Insecure passenger seat? Noisy exhaust?

I know the majority of people drive MOT failures from the testing station to a place of repair and back again. I don't know anyone who has ever towed or trailered one away. To be honest I think the police have got better things to do so unless your car was obviously dangerous just by looking at it you're unlikely to be stopped and unlikely to be prosecuted.

[Wig]

I have just googled various definitions of unroadworthy, and it is not defined (which as usual in law is a fat lot of good), but is basically something that would make the vehicle unsafe.

Which leads me to think that there would be a few MOT fail items that would not make a vehicle unsafe.

But then the thought comes to mind, the car would be in contravention of construction and use regulations, Not neccesarily unroadworthy but still an offence. We can't conclude that just because the various quotes from government only refer to 'unroadworthy', therefore that C&U regs can be broken for the purposes of MOT. Unless they specifically say so in legislation that C&U regs can be broken for MOT appointment travel, we have to assume that it would be illegal to drive the car, once failed, and if the fail was correctly issued.

I agree the police have enough to do, what I am concerned with is uncovering the what the legal truth is to the situation. I drive my cars away from MOT fails - it doesn't bother me, I've been driving the same car for weeks previously, what is one more journey going to do?


I don't think it is as simple as these snippets are making it out to be.

[in2deep]

Did anyone actualy read my previous post.?????

Well the answer does not seem to be found on any of the government information about the MOT test, so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:

"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.
However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT.
This is a very good reason to book your Mot early and give yourself plenty of time to book a retest if needed.


So basically you are NOT legal until its fixed regardless of the current test certificate

[Wig]

Yes I did read your post, but I wanted to delve deeper into the issue of why government sites say you can drive the failed car away to a place of repair subject to "unroadworthy" being a serious offence.

In my investigations I found that "unroadworthy" is not defined in the act. but refers to faults in brakes, steering, tyres, gears weight, which make the vehicle unsafe.

I then determined that a lot of the fail items would not make a vehicle unsafe, and therefore not unroadworthy. Which made me think about Construction and Use regulations.

I have since come to the conclusion that every single fail item on an MOT would be a Construction and Use violation and would therefore make the journey illegal except lamps.

I read your post and it is incorrect but also correct, it picks a serious fail item (tyres) and gives a stated opinion based on that item alone. What I wanted to address was the advice given by various websites that you can lawfully move your car to a place of repair, and not to choose such an easily categorised fail item (tyres). How about horn not working? Not serious, not unroadworthy and yet no doubt in violation of construction and use.

The websites would all have you believe that you can drive such a car to a place of repair. But there is no legislation which exempts vehicles coming from a failed MOT test from having to comply with RTA 1988 Section 41 construction and use. So you could still get something like a fixed penalty ticket. Which means the government advice is wrong, and the government is encouraging people to break the law - the test MOT test fees for one thing talk about taking the vehicle away from the test station.

I'm not sure if you actually got that response by emailing VOSA or not, but I have seen that very quote word for word on a non-VOSA MOT website. So I dunno if you copied it from there or if the person at VOSA copied it from there or what. But I can tell you that emailing VOSA is not a guaranteed way of getting to the truth about things, the emails are manned by numpties who don't know what they are talking about. The advice is incorrect because not every fail would mean the car is unroadworthy.
http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

Anyway, I'm just waffling and repeating myself. I hope people can see what point I am making.

[redux]

My car failed on a front sidelight bulb, which I'd checked 3 days before the test. I drove home and changed it, rather than clutter up the test site car park for a while on something that is quite fiddly, perhaps until after they closed, then came back the next morning.

Another fail was because the seat height adjustment wasn't working properly and the tester didn't like it being loose. He suggested it was quite simple to fix, get the trim off the side of the seat, and that one or two screws had probably come loose inside and fallen out. Clearly he intended that I took the car home to do the work if I wanted to.

A fail certificate may also include a notice that in the opinion of the tester the car is unsafe to drive. In such a case you'd have to either ask them to do repairs, or arrange to take the car away on a trailer.

So I'd assume that in the lack of such a notice, and with an existing pass that has not expired (making the remarks above not quite applicable about going to a test without an MOT), that driving the car is permissible, away from the test and back to the appointment for the retest, and that the test centre would have fairly clearly advised against it if it wasn't. I wouldn't start making guesses about continuing other ordinary use though, which I'd suggest avoiding or minimising.

Though the thread has been here long enough that the OP will have resolved this by now, either repair or disposal, anyone in a similar situation might ask the test station for their advice.

[Wig]

So I'd assume that in the lack of such a notice, and with an existing pass that has not expired (making the remarks above not quite applicable about going to a test without an MOT), that driving the car is permissible, away from the test and back to the appointment for the retest, and that the test centre would have fairly clearly advised against it if it wasn't. I wouldn't start making guesses about continuing other ordinary use though, which I'd suggest avoiding or minimising.


In practice, thousands of people drive away cars from MOT with minor faults everyday, in practice, it's ok to do it because no-one cares and you won't get caught. But I am trying to state the exact truth about the legality of doing that. I'm not saying "don't do this it's illegal".

There is no exemption -in law- from construction and use regs, however minor the fault, in going to or from an MOT test, in doing it you are guilty of an offence. I am as certain as can be about that.