South West Trains Penalty Fare

[bodybox]

I used my Oyster card to access a train at Clapham Junction and disembarked at Waterloo station. A guard scanned my card at Waterloo and alerted a Revenue Controls Officer who was surprisingly pleased to advise me that I am to pay a £20 penalty for fare evasion. On questioning his decision making skills and trying to illustrate to him how his very existence makes the world a little bit worse for everybody, he called upon the support of a big-boned gentleman with a massive and very red face who spent a good ten minutes shouting, finger pointing and offering repeated threats of arrest. Having failed to introduce himself, it soon became clear that he was a manager of some sort.
I would rather have paid the penalty on my own terms instead of being bullied into it by a trio of very angry men. This is as close to being mugged as I ever hope to get.
And on checking my Oyster card account this afternoon, I find I have been charged for the journey between Clapham Junction and Waterloo.
What I’m trying to find out is, who would I pursue, either TFL or South West Trains, for the reimbursement of the fee debited from my Oyster card account as I'm not very happy at the thought of paying the charge for the journey and then being fined for not paying for a ticket.

I would also like the trio of lumpy-headed cretins that I had to deal with to be reprimanded for their bully-boy tactics although I suspect that this is what got them the job in the first place.

[dzug]

Your PAYG Oyster card is not valid between Clapham Junction and Waterloo.

The only line at Clapham Junction that it's valid on is that leading to Willesden Junction. What you've paid for is a journey on that line - and probably an incomplete journey at that.

I doubt if you've any claim for a refund - you were correctly (even if rudely)charged a penalty fare by SWT, and incorrectly swiped your card instead of buying a ticket. Tfl may be sympathetic, they may not.

[bodybox]

That's pretty much what I thought. I found information on the TFL website that states the fare for Clapham Junction to Waterloo is £2 using the Oyster card. And it's just here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2008/farefinder/default.asp?results=true&from=Clapham+Junction+%5BLondon+Overground%5D&to=Waterloo&type=Adult&showfares=Show+fares

Swines

[dzug]

Very strange - I suspect if you had travelled via West Brompton/ Earls Court and continued your journey by tube to Waterloo that would have been fine. That's the overground route. Waterloo SWT is not on the overground

Definitely conflicting and confusing information being given out though - have a go at Tfl.

[bodybox]

Yes, scoundrels. I will likely mail TFL.

[bodybox]

Update: I spoke to someone at TFL and they informed me that my Oyster card isn't valid for the route listed and if I believed that the information found on their website (see above post) was misleading then this is my own fault for being incompetent. That's another thorny issue successfully tackled.

[MarkyMarkD]

dzug The route you quote wouldn't work either. There is NO way to get to Waterloo using London Overground and Oyster together, as http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/oyster-payg-on-national-rail.pdf shows. Having said that, the fare finder is completely misleading.

It's a rubbish website too. If you use the route planner, you can't then find fares automatically. You have to click through to "fares and tickets" and then re-enter your details - which would then suggest that the fare you first referred to is available. It's mad!

[dzug1]

dzug The route you quote wouldn't work either. There is NO way to get to Waterloo using London Overground and Oyster together, as http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/oyster-payg-on-national-rail.pdf shows. Having said that, the fare finder is completely misleading.

!

Yes it does - you change to the Underground at West Brompton or even Kensington Olympia or Willesden Junction.

I'd agree on the farefinder being misleading though

[meester]

sounds like you made a mistake, put it out of your mind, move on, see your blood pressure fall.

[bodybox]

Huzzah!!! Called IRCAS today to get an update on my penalty fare appeal and was informed that my rejection letter had recently been posted. I asked to speak to the folk that made that decision although was advised that this was impossible as they don't have mouths or ears. Ten minutes later I took a call from a young lady (a manager from IRCAS) who advised me she had looked at the case notes, recognised both that the information I used from the TFL website is misleading and that the inspector hadn't used "appropriate discretion" and I would be issued a refund for the full sum. This pleases me immensely. You'd like to think that bullying stopped in the playground but unfortunately it continues into adult life. By both large once nationally owned companies and burly, lumpy-headed individuals. Hooray for me. I will now print off the letter outlining my appeal success, march down to Waterloo, track down the trio of licensed muggers and demand they issue me an apology. Over the tannoy. Yes, I think that this may be taking things a little too far.

[womble100]

ircas need their arses kicked for refunding you.your gripe is with tfl not south west trains.some people are so thick they should not be out on their own.

[RichyRich]

womble100, how do you know that the OP wasn't stopped by a SWT Revenue Inspector rather than a TfL Revenue Inspector?

[bodybox]

Hi again. the penalty fare was issued by SW Trains, so yes, whilst TFL are at fault (and subsequently, not the responsibility of SWT) this does not negate the fact that I did everything I could to prepare for the journey and was confident in my actions.
Penalty fares used to be just that, discretion was used in their issue and the world was a better place for it. Now, the network operators choose to use this as an extra source of income, despite the merits of each individual case.
Womble 100, I suspect you would be unable to think of an occasion whereby an appeal via IRCAS would be upheld, rendering their worth absolutely zero.
In addition, the criteria with which IRCAS use to qualify appeals is dictated by the network operators which highlights a conflict of interest. Knowing this makes me happier with the outcome.

[ticketcollector]

I agree with womble100 here, in part.
IRCAS shouldnt have granted your appeal, but told TfL to refund it. Furthermore it was SWT that pf'd you not TfL. SWT did everything fine, TfL dont.

[gner_ex]

If I were you, I'd make a complaint (to London TravelWatch (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/)) about the TfL website.

[ironchris]

I agree with womble100 here, in part.
IRCAS shouldnt have granted your appeal, but told TfL to refund it. Furthermore it was SWT that pf'd you not TfL. SWT did everything fine, TfL dont.

I think the title says it all, you can't hide fella