Oyster Card - weird

[Thomask]

Hi

Can anyone explain the following:

I have an Adult Oyster card with a Young Person's railcard loaded against it (no relevance as journey was not started in off peak but strange scenario so thought I'd mention it).

I took a trip today during peak time (about 9:05am) from Angel (zone 1) to Uxbridge (zone 6). It was correctly charged at £3.50. I then took a bus about lunchtime and was charged 90p, again correct. At about 4.45pm today I took a trip from Uxbridge to Kings Cross and was only charged £3.30 and the Oyster card then capped! Great for me, just bizzare. So it's capped at £7.70. The only mention anywhere in the TFL booklet of a '£7.70' price is the daily cap for zones 1 - 9 (not 1 - 6) when started in OFF peak time!

Any thoughts? :)

[silvercar]

Presumably you arrived at Uxbridge after 9.30am. Maybe it took some of your Angel to Uxbridge journey towards the daily cap?

[Keith]

I have to buy and use an Oyster card tomorrow for the first time, and to be honest it baffles me!

[Thomask]

the cap was based on when you start the journey ie. touch in ?

[isasmurf]

I have an Adult Oyster card with a Young Person's railcard loaded against it (no relevance as journey was not started in off peak but strange scenario so thought I'd mention it).
It's very relevant.

To work out what's happened here, you need to go backwards.

Your evening journey from Uxbridge - Kings Cross PAYG cost £3.5
Your bus journey cost 90p
Total so far £4.40
Check against Z1-6 travelcard (with YP Railcard discount) cap £4.20
You've paid more then the cap so your Oyster is now capped at an Off-Peak Z1-6 travelcard fare.

Add on the peak morning fare of £3.50 to your off-peak cap of £4.20

Total £7.70

[Keith]

I did it today, even though I was advised by London Underground to buy a travelcard! £7.70 or something it was, so I asked about prepay, which cost me £3 plus the £3 deposit!

[oioiyoyo]

If you buy a travelcard on Oyster then its an ok system. However, if you wish to make sporadic journeys in London i.e. top up (which I do when I can't cycle into work), then it is totally flawed so I thought I warn anyone I can just so they are aware of what they are getting into.

First and foremost, even if you diligently swipe in and out, some stations don't register it and you spend your life ringing oyster getting refunds (at least you can save money by ringing 02072277886 rather than the 0870 number).

Secondly and most importantly, Oyster top up can only really work if you stick to tubes and this is why... If you are a bus user (i.e. your nearest tube is a bus journey away or for instance, like many Londoners, you decide to stay out at the weekend after last tube and get the bus home late at night) then its a totally flawed system in three ways:

Capping: this will ONLY occur if you only use tubes, bus journeys are in addition not included when it comes to capping. So when you think you can only possibly spend a maximum amount a day, you end up using up all your money on your card and getting caught out when you step onto a bus, which leads me to...

Topping up: the only place you can top up is at a tube station, so if its late at night and you get onto a bus and you have only at this point found you have no money on your card, there is no way and no where to top up so you end up having to put £2 instead of 90p for your journey. That's if you have any change on you at the time...

Auto top up: Again is a pointless system as you can sort this all out online only to get to the final payment stage to discover once again, you need to go all the way to a tube station to swipe your card in order for your auto-top up to be initially registered and re-topped up thereafter. It does not top up on buses as they aren't linked to the central system. So, in fact, its not automatic at all. Plus you have to nominate one station only to get your refund.

Rant over, but hopefully these points will come in useful next time you want to use Oyster...

[chuckley]

If you buy a travelcard on Oyster then its an ok system. However, if you wish to make sporadic journeys in London i.e. top up (which I do when I can't cycle into work), then it is totally flawed so I thought I warn anyone I can just so they are aware of what they are getting into.

First and foremost, even if you diligently swipe in and out, some stations don't register it and you spend your life ringing oyster getting refunds (at least you can save money by ringing 02072277886 rather than the 0870 number).

and did it beep once and turn green?

Secondly and most importantly, Oyster top up can only really work if you stick to tubes and this is why... If you are a bus user (i.e. your nearest tube is a bus journey away or for instance, like many Londoners, you decide to stay out at the weekend after last tube and get the bus home late at night) then its a totally flawed system in three ways:

Capping: this will ONLY occur if you only use tubes, bus journeys are in addition not included when it comes to capping. So when you think you can only possibly spend a maximum amount a day, you end up using up all your money on your card and getting caught out when you step onto a bus, which leads me to...

if u mix tubes, bus n trams it caps at 50p less than daily travel card. it doesnt cap at different rates. so u must be doin summat wrong...

Topping up: the only place you can top up is at a tube station, so if its late at night and you get onto a bus and you have only at this point found you have no money on your card, there is no way and no where to top up so you end up having to put £2 instead of 90p for your journey. That's if you have any change on you at the time...

FALSE... theres train stations, local newsagents... and some off licences. if u dont have enough on your card thats 100% your fault, unless theres been a fault with the machines.

Auto top up: Again is a pointless system as you can sort this all out online only to get to the final payment stage to discover once again, you need to go all the way to a tube station to swipe your card in order for your auto-top up to be initially registered and re-topped up thereafter. It does not top up on buses as they aren't linked to the central system. So, in fact, its not automatic at all. Plus you have to nominate one station only to get your refund.

AGAIN FALSE... can prove handy for folk that start journeys at certain train, tube and tram stations. the system clearly tells you you have to pick up at a certain station BEFORE you proceed to pay.

Rant over, but hopefully these points will come in useful next time you want to use Oyster...I think you have had oyster problems PURELY through your own errors.

[marksmith99]

I think you have had oyster problems PURELY through your own errors.

Bit aggressive I think.

None of the SW train stations I use allow you to top up Oysters (the only exception I can think of may be Clapham Junction which is the end of this London Overground thing).

On auto top up, it is a right pain that you have to go to a tube station and go through the barriers. My wife only uses Oyster for buses and so can't auto, which means from time to time she runs out of money and has to pay the cash fare. I phoned the helpline and they said the only way to get auto to work would be to do it at a tube station then go straight to the ticket office and get a refund back onto the card as you hadn't travelled anywhere.

[isasmurf]

She can run down the Oyster card that she has and then apply for a new Oyster card with auto top up already included from the TfL website. (http://transportforlondon.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/transportforlondon.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2582&p_created=1153219959&)
If you do not have access to a Tube station or tram stop, you can run the balance of your current card to zero and get a new Oyster card at Oyster Online. This new card will be set up with Auto top-up and can be activated by touching it on any card reader (bus, Tube, tram, DLR or London Overground). Once activated, your pay as you go balance will automatically be topped up whenever it falls below £5 and you touch it on any card reader (except ticket machines).

[oioiyoyo]

First of all, Mr/Mrs/Ms Chuckly – naughty naughy! don’t forget the forum etiquette: there’s no need to shout or be rude!

Secondly, here are my replies to yours (but thank you for the input)

Originally Posted by chuckley (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=10304419#post10304419)

and did it beep once and turn green?
Of course! I said I “deligently” swiped in and out.

if u mix tubes, bus n trams it caps at 50p less than daily travel card. it doesnt cap at different rates. so u must be doin summat wrong...
No I’m not – I’ve checked both my journey history and with the Oyster operator who agrees that this is the case.

FALSE... theres train stations, local newsagents... and some off licences. if u dont have enough on your card thats 100% your fault, unless theres been a fault with the machines.
Fine if you use tubes, but this particular post is for bus users, so your input is not useful here, and I’m still correct. I still use the machines at the stations/news agents/whatever, what I’m saying is, if its late at night and there’s no where to top up or you don't live near a station or newsagent and you have to take a bus, you’re stuck as buses in general can’t top up your card.

AGAIN FALSE... can prove handy for folk that start journeys at certain train, tube and tram stations. the system clearly tells you you have to pick up at a certain station BEFORE you proceed to pay.
Again, as I said in my original post, this is aimed at bus users, therefore my point was not the payment but that it’s a pain to have to go all the way to a station/newsagents (in my area anyway) just to go all the way to a bus stop again to get a bus. So again, my statement is not false.
I think you have had oyster problems PURELY through your own errors.
Thanks ever so much, but no, this is false. I’ve had many many lengthy phone calls with Oyster about his problem and they agree on all the above points. Again, may I reiterate that I have no problem with the system (as I said at the beginning of my original post) as a tube user, but now I use it purely for buses it is flawed. And no none of these problems are purely down to my errors.
NB My original post was merely to warn bus users.
Lastly – Auto top up – thanks for tip isasmurf!! – I will do that if it means it will top up my card on buses then brilliant!!!!

[dzug]

If you use buses only a one day bus pass (£3.50) or a pack of 6 tickets (£6) might be more suitable.

Though I would have thought it should cap at £3 - 50p less than the bus pass. Maybe it doesn't count as a travelcard.

[oioiyoyo]

That's good to know - thanks! (although the capping part of my rant was based on combining tube and bus journeys - if I have to use the tube for meetings at work and I have to get a bus to the nearest tube station, that's when the money starts adding up and capping doesn't count when you combine bus and tube, unfortunately).

[dzug]

and capping doesn't count when you combine bus and tube, unfortunately).

It's always worked with me.

[alan99]

Secondly and most importantly, Oyster top up can only really work if you stick to tubes and this is why... If you are a bus user (i.e. your nearest tube is a bus journey away or for instance, like many Londoners, you decide to stay out at the weekend after last tube and get the bus home late at night) then its a totally flawed system in three ways:

Capping: this will ONLY occur if you only use tubes, bus journeys are in addition not included when it comes to capping. So when you think you can only possibly spend a maximum amount a day, you end up using up all your money on your card and getting caught out when you step onto a bus, which leads me to...

...

Capping, on pre pay Oyster ,I believe should include buses and tubes. Are you saying it doesnt work for you ?

I always find it useful to carry a book of 6 "cherry" tickets also known as London Buses Saver tickets , £6 for 6. Sometimes the ticket reader on the bus doesnt work anyway.

Alan

[chuckley]

Bit aggressive I think.

None of the SW train stations I use allow you to top up Oysters (the only exception I can think of may be Clapham Junction which is the end of this London Overground thing).

so y r u travelling knowing u aint got enough for your entire journey leg/day?

On auto top up, it is a right pain that you have to go to a tube station and go through the barriers. My wife only uses Oyster for buses and so can't auto, which means from time to time she runs out of money and has to pay the cash fare. I phoned the helpline and they said the only way to get auto to work would be to do it at a tube station then go straight to the ticket office and get a refund back onto the card as you hadn't travelled anywhere.

not just tube stations, but also tram stops. y not just put on a certain amount for paug journeys? if she runs out of credit on her card, surely thats her own fault? i dont see how auto top up is that big a deal... practically every cornershop has oyster machines.

[chuckley]

First of all, Mr/Mrs/Ms Chuckly – naughty naughy! don’t forget the forum etiquette: there’s no need to shout or be rude!

Secondly, here are my replies to yours (but thank you for the input)

Originally Posted by chuckley (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=10304419#post10304419)

and did it beep once and turn green?
Of course! I said I “deligently” swiped in and out.

if u mix tubes, bus n trams it caps at 50p less than daily travel card. it doesnt cap at different rates. so u must be doin summat wrong...
No I’m not – I’ve checked both my journey history and with the Oyster operator who agrees that this is the case.

FALSE... theres train stations, local newsagents... and some off licences. if u dont have enough on your card thats 100% your fault, unless theres been a fault with the machines.
Fine if you use tubes, but this particular post is for bus users, so your input is not useful here, and I’m still correct. I still use the machines at the stations/news agents/whatever, what I’m saying is, if its late at night and there’s no where to top up or you don't live near a station or newsagent and you have to take a bus, you’re stuck as buses in general can’t top up your card.

AGAIN FALSE... can prove handy for folk that start journeys at certain train, tube and tram stations. the system clearly tells you you have to pick up at a certain station BEFORE you proceed to pay.
Again, as I said in my original post, this is aimed at bus users, therefore my point was not the payment but that it’s a pain to have to go all the way to a station/newsagents (in my area anyway) just to go all the way to a bus stop again to get a bus. So again, my statement is not false.I think you have had oyster problems PURELY through your own errors.
Thanks ever so much, but no, this is false. I’ve had many many lengthy phone calls with Oyster about his problem and they agree on all the above points. Again, may I reiterate that I have no problem with the system (as I said at the beginning of my original post) as a tube user, but now I use it purely for buses it is flawed. And no none of these problems are purely down to my errors.
NB My original post was merely to warn bus users.
Lastly – Auto top up – thanks for tip isasmurf!! – I will do that if it means it will top up my card on buses then brilliant!!!!so its tfl's fault, late at nite when u have zero on ur card?! LOL!!!!!!!!

it doesnt matter if its bus, tube, rail or tram... u need to have enough on your card for your entire journey/day of journeys. if u mix it'l cap... if not, summats going wrong. if ur a bus paug user only, its even more simple to use. u always know how much u have lefgt, when u swipe... i dont see ya'lls issue.

[chuckley]

Capping, on pre pay Oyster ,I believe should include buses and tubes. Are you saying it doesnt work for you ?

I always find it useful to carry a book of 6 "cherry" tickets also known as London Buses Saver tickets , £6 for 6. Sometimes the ticket reader on the bus doesnt work anyway.

Alani has those once but they said they were getting rid and as they were bringing in new ones so the old ones would 'expire'. i was not happy.

i love it when the reader aint workin... i get home for free :D

[Bongedone]

You only have to activate the auto topup at a tube station once. When that is done it will top up on busses also.

Chuckley: The auto topup is great. Means you never run out of credit at awkward times. The OH kept running out of money at work and having to borrow the bus fare.

[marksmith99]

Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmith99 http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=10339357#post10339357)
Bit aggressive I think.

None of the SW train stations I use allow you to top up Oysters (the only exception I can think of may be Clapham Junction which is the end of this London Overground thing).

So why are you travelling knowing you haven't got enough for your entire journey leg/day?

I'm not, I have a SW trains paper goldcard, I was just correcting the error in your original post where you indicated that oyster cards could be topped up at train stations.

On auto top up, it is a right pain that you have to go to a tube station and go through the barriers. My wife only uses Oyster for buses and so can't auto, which means from time to time she runs out of money and has to pay the cash fare. I phoned the helpline and they said the only way to get auto to work would be to do it at a tube station then go straight to the ticket office and get a refund back onto the card as you hadn't travelled anywhere.

Not just tube stations, but also tram stops. Why not just put on a certain amount for payg journeys? If she runs out of credit on her card, surely that's her own fault?

True about tram stops, but as I said she only uses buses so same point applies. Just saying that auto top up is promoted as a great convenience, but doesn't quite live up to that in all situations.


i dont see how auto top up is that big a deal... practically every cornershop has oyster machines.

Don't get me started on what happens if I want to go outside my Goldcard zones!

[DoctorOcta]

Ok let’s get some things straight here cos people seem to be getting very confused. I’ll try to answer all the questions posed. Everything I am saying is from experience – just an Oyster geek!

1. Capping definitely works on all TfL modes of transport. There is a Bus cap (stops at £3) and a multi modal cap which depends on the Zones you travel in. If you extend your journeys, the cap re-evaluates to cover your trips

2. The cap is always the cheapest it can be for a customer – for example this may be a combination of an off peak cap and a single journey in the morning IF that is cheaper than the peak cap!

3. Oyster works on Buses, Tubes, National Rail, Trams and DLR. However it is not the card that is not allowed on some routes, but the product on the card!

4. National Rail went private in the 80s. At the time it was agreed that ALL tickets that were shared with the public transport system would be retained so that the paying public would not have any issues. This is why if you have a season ticket on an Oyster card, you can use ALL NR in London.

5. Pay as you go (payg for simplicities sake!) was introduced in 2003. NR decided NOT to be part of the scheme and to continue charging the prices they wanted to charge. There was nothing that could be done for the customer, cos as they are private companies, they can do as they wish.

6. There are SOME routes that do allow payg – the most common at the moment being the London Overground (orange lines).

7. Extensive discussions between the NR companies and the Mayor’s office have meant that from Jan 2009, 99% of all routes will accept payg.

8. Auto top-up (ATU) and Capping are features of payg – and NOT products in themselves. That means that if you cannot use payg on a route then you definitely can’t cap or use ATU.

9. ATU DOES work on buses – most definitely!!!

10. You have to set up an instruction on your card to ‘teach’ your Oyster card to top up. THIS requires going to a Tube station. This is a one off procedure and NEVER needs to be done again.

11. YES this will charge you money (as the system will think you are starying a Tube journey) but you get this refunded over the counter at the Tube station. You NEVER need to do this again.

12. The instruction is ON the Oyster card and NOT on the central system. Therefore if you touch any reader in London (Bus/Tube/Tram whatever) and your balance is under £5, you will top up by your top up amount of £20 or £40. (with Tubes you need to be on an entry gate rather than exiting)

13. The money is taken from the customer’s account a few days later. This means that you can have a card that will never run out of money.

14. You can buy products for your Oyster card online or on the phone, in a shop or at a Tube station or at some NR stations (normally ones that accept payg – so SW trains won’t do it).

15. OiOiYoYo – you are right – if you don’t have money on your card and there is nowhere to top up then you have to pay cash – but then ATU is perfect for you.

16. OiOiYoYo – you DEFINITELY have the wrong information from whatever helpline you called – I guarantee what I am saying above is correct. Maybe the help line you called were incorrect – or newbies or something. Ring up and speak to a manager – they’ll tell you I am correct. And tell them to re-train their staff.

17. You cannot get charged more than £3.00 a day on the buses using payg. If you do – then you must have got a tube during the day or something!!

18. If the bus reader DOESN’T work then the driver needs to let you on. If he charges you then call Bus Customer Services and they can sort him out. Same thing with inspectors – they have to prove you DON’T have a ticket – you don’t have to prove that you DO.

19. If you want to go out of your Goldcard Zones – you need to see where you are travelling. Is it a payg friendly route? Is it NR? Do they accept payg? If they DO accept payg then all you need to do is top up with a few quid to make the journey (when you touch out you will be charge bout £1 for an extension – varies depending on Zone). If they DON’T then you need to buy a paper ticket from the relevant NR company. (see points 4-7 for reasons)

Anything else Oystery? this should be made into a pamphlet!

[marksmith99]

Good info thanks.

Its the irritating little quirks that annoy me (eg with the auto, why does it have to be at a entry gate, why not just at one of the ticket machines so you don't then have to queue and get a refund, why not on buses if the auto is on the card). The technology is good but not quite good enough.

On the national rail, I understand the historic reasons why its a shambles, but it doesn't make it right when we should be striving for an integrated easy to use public transport system.

[DoctorOcta]

Good info thanks.

Its the irritating little quirks that annoy me (eg with the auto, why does it have to be at a entry gate, why not just at one of the ticket machines so you don't then have to queue and get a refund, why not on buses if the auto is on the card). The technology is good but not quite good enough.

On the national rail, I understand the historic reasons why its a shambles, but it doesn't make it right when we should be striving for an integrated easy to use public transport system.

Starting with your second point - I totally agree. But thats why Jan 2009 is the date it will go live across the network - better late than never I guess - but even when I have spoken to NR they told me "not enough people want it" - which can't be true - but then some NR companies HAVE come on board.
So it COULD be brought forward by customer pressure - i.e. tell your NR company that enough is enough and to accept the move.

The entry gate thing makes no difference. Think about it. If you leave a station and you are under £5 - what difference does it make? Nothing cos you aren't travelling at the end of a journey.
You will DEFINITELY top up when you re-enter the station - or get on a bus - or etc etc - so there is no need to worry at all. All that it means is that you will be below £5 for a few hours when you are not travelling!

ATU DOES work on buses - I cant stress this enough. It's just the first time you need to use a Tube station or Tram stop (didnt mention that earlier). NOT the first time you top up - but the first time you want your card to 'learn' about ATU. That HAS to be at a Tube gate or tram stop cos the instruction has to be sent to something linked to the central system. Once the instruction is on the card then you never need to see the central system again!

[DoctorOcta]

Ah sorry - missed one of your points

The reason it MUST be at the gates and not the ticket machines is cos 99% of the reasoning for the online shop etc is to get rid of queues at stations - and it really has done that. I used to queue with about 30-40 other people on Monday mornings back in the early 2000s and now on Monday mornings I am looking at 5-6 people.

If TfL allowed pick ups to be done from machines then people would just be queuing again - albeit for another reason!

Bus users are the only people who get messed about with the "touch in - get the first instruction and then get a refund thing"
I am SURE there is something afoot to fix that

[chuckley]

I'm not, I have a SW trains paper goldcard, I was just correcting the error in your original post where you indicated that oyster cards could be topped up at train stations.dont train stops have oyster top ups down ur SW way?? if not cant u use a newsagents?

but as I said she only uses buses so same point applies. Just saying that auto top up is promoted as a great convenience, but doesn't quite live up to that in all situations.i get what u mean, it is easier for tube and tram users, BUT the fact still comes down to ur OH doesnt put enough on her card for her days/weeks journeys...

[marcgr]

March 2010* is the current date for PAYG on National Rail to be completed by.

At the moment most of North London national rail accepts Oyster PAYG.

Southern has a PAYG map showing where it can be used: http://www.southernrailway.com/content/doc/cms/Oyster_PAYG_national_rail261107.pdf (PDF NOV 2007)

*
The Greater London Authority’s Consolidated Budget and Component Budgets for 2008-09
. http://www.london.gov.uk/gla/budget/docs/0809budget.pdf Page 20

"Oyster availability is now being extended to National Rail, starting with the London Overground in November 2007. It will then be progressively rolled out across all other stations within the Travelcard boundary in London by March 2010."

[marksmith99]

dont train stops have oyster top ups down ur SW way??

No they don't. My SW Trains Goldcard has to be paper as they don't sell any kind of Oyster at their stations. I could get a Gold Oyster from a tube station but would then not get any recompense from SW trains for their poor performance.

i get what u mean, it is easier for tube and tram users, BUT the fact still comes down to ur OH doesnt put enough on her card for her days/weeks journeys...

she uses it sporadically, so its not easy to know how much is left on there.

[isasmurf]

Here (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/OysterPAYG.pdf) is a map showing at what stations you can use Oyster PAYG

[chuckley]

dont train stops have oyster top ups down ur SW way??

No they don't. My SW Trains Goldcard has to be paper as they don't sell any kind of Oyster at their stations. I could get a Gold Oyster from a tube station but would then not get any recompense from SW trains for their poor performance.

she uses it sporadically, so its not easy to know how much is left on there.thats y u gotta register ya card online to regularly check, OR look at the reader when swiped as it tells ya there...

cant u get ya foldcard on ya oyster at ya local newsagents?

[DoctorOcta]

"I could get a Gold Oyster from a tube station but would then not get any recompense from SW trains for their poor performance"

He COULD chuckley - but he is right about the above
If you renew your season ticket with SW, they give you a bad service discount :P
Crazy but true
it's 5%

[Thomask]

Thanks for your contributions everyone.

Anyone managed to solve my OP?

:)

[dzug1]

Thanks for your contributions everyone.

Anyone managed to solve my OP?

:)

Post #5 gave you your answer

[millie]

I live in Birmingham but my son now lives in London so I will be travelling there quite regularly so I have an Oyster card which I registered online. I purchased credit online last week. I had to choose a station that it would activate at when touched on the reader. I chose Euston because the NR train that I use arrives there. The auto top up did not work and I had to pay for a top up at the ticket office. Since I have been home I have checked my journey history on the online web site and there is a choice of readers I could hve used at Euston, I chose Euston NR thinking that was the correct one National Rail. I apparently went through the one called Euston LUL thats why it did not work. Does anyone know how I get my money back for this failed top up? Of course I will know better next time

[dzug1]

Does anyone know how I get my money back for this failed top up? Of course I will know better next time

I believe it's automatically refunded if not picked up by a week after purchase.

[Thomask]

It's very relevant.

To work out what's happened here, you need to go backwards.

Your evening journey from Uxbridge - Kings Cross PAYG cost £3.5
Your bus journey cost 90p
Total so far £4.40
Check against Z1-6 travelcard (with YP Railcard discount) cap £4.20
You've paid more then the cap so your Oyster is now capped at an Off-Peak Z1-6 travelcard fare.

Add on the peak morning fare of £3.50 to your off-peak cap of £4.20

Total £7.70


My first journey was taken early in the morning, meaning I'd 'broken' the opportunity for my Oyster Card to cap at an offpeak rate for that entire day, correct?

[dzug1]

My first journey was taken early in the morning, meaning I'd 'broken' the opportunity for my Oyster Card to cap at an offpeak rate for that entire day, correct?

Yes - it was cheaper to charge you an off-peak cap and add on the single peaktime journey than to charge the peak cap. At least that's how I read it.

[Thomask]

Yes - it was cheaper to charge you an off-peak cap and add on the single peaktime journey than to charge the peak cap. At least that's how I read it.

As great as that is, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having 2 different caps?
ie. If you can hold off from taking your first journey before 10am TFL will reward you by charging a lower capped price for the day

Otherwise when would the PEAK cap be applied? The system has given me a single journey cost plus the cost of an off peak cap - both totalling less than the peak cap!

[Thomask]

Buuuuuuuump

[gner_ex]

Hi

Can anyone explain the following:

I have an Adult Oyster card with a Young Person's railcard loaded against it (no relevance as journey was not started in off peak but strange scenario so thought I'd mention it).

I took a trip today during peak time (about 9:05am) from Angel (zone 1) to Uxbridge (zone 6). It was correctly charged at £3.50. I then took a bus about lunchtime and was charged 90p, again correct. At about 4.45pm today I took a trip from Uxbridge to Kings Cross and was only charged £3.30 and the Oyster card then capped! Great for me, just bizzare. So it's capped at £7.70. The only mention anywhere in the TFL booklet of a '£7.70' price is the daily cap for zones 1 - 9 (not 1 - 6) when started in OFF peak time!

Any thoughts? :)
Remember peak and off-peak are defined differently on Oyster PAYG compared to travelcards.

[gner_ex]

4. National Rail went private in the 80s. At the time it was agreed that ALL tickets that were shared with the public transport system would be retained so that the paying public would not have any issues. This is why if you have a season ticket on an Oyster card, you can use ALL NR in London.

5. Pay as you go (payg for simplicities sake!) was introduced in 2003. NR decided NOT to be part of the scheme and to continue charging the prices they wanted to charge. There was nothing that could be done for the customer, cos as they are private companies, they can do as they wish.

6. There are SOME routes that do allow payg – the most common at the moment being the London Overground (orange lines).

7. Extensive discussions between the NR companies and the Mayor’s office have meant that from Jan 2009, 99% of all routes will accept payg.
<SNIP>
18. If the bus reader DOESN’T work then the driver needs to let you on. If he charges you then call Bus Customer Services and they can sort him out. Same thing with inspectors – they have to prove you DON’T have a ticket – you don’t have to prove that you DO.

19. If you want to go out of your Goldcard Zones – you need to see where you are travelling. Is it a payg friendly route? Is it NR? Do they accept payg? If they DO accept payg then all you need to do is top up with a few quid to make the journey (when you touch out you will be charge bout £1 for an extension – varies depending on Zone). If they DON’T then you need to buy a paper ticket from the relevant NR company. (see points 4-7 for reasons)

Anything else Oystery? this should be made into a pamphlet!
Octa, in the nicest possible way, parts of the bits I have highlighted are complete rubbish.

National Rail (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk) is a brand, NOT an operator. All the TOCs (train operating companies) are part of ATOC (http://www.atoc.org), Association of Train Operating Companies. Whilst the TOCs are private companies, they are franchises, and as such have to abide by ATOC's ticketing policies. If there was a political decision that all London tickets could be purchased by buttons, the TOCs would have to abide by it.

In actual fact, the reason that (initially) TOCs didn't join Oyster was BECAUSE they had to charge the fairest prices for the customer. Fare increases are strictly regulated, and they couldn't (for example) just adopt the Oyster fares willy nilly. This changed in January 2007, with the creation of London Zonal Fares on National Rail (http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=235656&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False) - note the prices on this link are out of date now.

The initial National Rail lines that accept Oyster PAYG were in fact the lines where a fare is shared with London Underground, example Finsbury Park to Kings Cross. As you say, with the Silverlink Metro franchise passing to LOROL (London Overground Rail Operations Ltd) a decision was made that all stations would accept Oyster, and around the same time, Oyster PAYG was offered on the C2C franchise (lines out of Fenchurch Street to south essex) and various other infill sections (for example, the whole of West Hampstead Thameslink to Elephant & Castle on the FCC Thameslink network.

The original reason for the delay is that ATOC etc are working on a much better smartcard design, using ITSO technology, which is a level above Oyster, and it was intended that this would be done instead of Oyster (and then the London Underground oyster system upgraded to match).

Buses... that is dangerous advice. If the drivers reader seems not to work, you should wait to be told what to do by him (which may be to sit down, or to be given a (free) paper ticket. Buses in London (and tubes/trains nationwide) are able to issue penalty fares (forget the money saving expert stuff about a penalty being unenforceable; this is a specific piece of legislation) so do be very careful when sitting on a bus without any proof whatsoever that you are entitled to be there.

Point 19 - not quite right. This was toughened up last year. If you are travelling beyond your zones, you must ensure that you touch in and touch out at a PAYG compatible station. Lets say you have a Z1-3 travelcard on Oyster, and you travel from Alexandra Palace to Morden. You don't need to touch in at Alexandra Palace (and indeed, cannot), and could then change cross-platform at Highbury, and again cross-platform at Stockwell. If you then touch out at Morden, you will be charged a penalty.

What you would need to do at this station is ensure that you touch in AND touch out at places that accept Oyster PAYG. You could for example go out then in again at any of the stations within the zones you have (if you went via Kings Cross for example, you would touch when walking out of the Kings Cross suburban station, then touch-in again to go into Kings Cross St Panc underground station. In actual fact, the Victoria Line platforms at Highbury have oyster readers, for this very situation.

What you can NOT do is enter the system by touching in at a NONE osyter PAYG station (Ilford is a good example of this), then touching out at a station beyond your zones.

Also re extension tickets, ensure you as for "Boundary Zone 4" to Reading (or whatever zone and destination, as these are often cheaper).

Finally, anyone who wants to avoid Ken Livingstone's surveillence society will be pleased to hear that you can still buy paper daily/weekly/yearly travelcards for the various zones, at any National Rail ticket office, and it is the same price as an Oyster travelcard.

[Thomask]

Buuuuuuuump

[gner_ex]

As great as that is, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having 2 different caps?
ie. If you can hold off from taking your first journey before 10am TFL will reward you by charging a lower capped price for the day

Otherwise when would the PEAK cap be applied? The system has given me a single journey cost plus the cost of an off peak cap - both totalling less than the peak cap!
The peak cap would be applied (I believe) if there was more than one peak journey.

If you say bump one more time I will report you to the moderator.